There are 205 users in the forums
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Brock is so much of a better thrower than that. He throws dimes. He's very accurate. Better processer too. Superior athlete running around as well. Mullens is nothing compared to him.
Basically what I just said.
Yes I agree. Brock is real.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree, Mullen's processor is slow as molasses compared to Brock's processor.
Brock's accuracy is also many levels better than Mullen's accuracy.
Originally posted by Furlow:
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
Originally posted by Chance:right ! lol
Originally posted by Furlow:
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
Originally posted by Furlow:you haven't brought up any evidence lol.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:lol remember the way you projected hater towards anyone who criticized Alex and jimmy
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:it's not about jimmy but you do hate Kyle and you do this every chance you get.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.
Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.
Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.
Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.
Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?
Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.
Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.
Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.
I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.
Nope.
Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.
We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.
See post #36021. Overall as an OC and HC, Kyle has a losing record. So the theory that he's blowing everyone out and that's why he runs so much is false. In 2014 the Browns were 7-9. They ranked 6th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts. In 2018 the Niners were 4-12. They ranked 11th in rushing attempts and 20th in passing attempts. So despite all of that losing, he was still committed to running the ball. Yes, OF COURSE when teams are losing they are going to throw more than run. Hell that's true even when teams are winning, as most teams pass the ball more than they run (even good teams). Very few teams/coaches are as skewed towards the run as Kyle is. I'm stressing the word skewed and emphasizing RELATIVE TO the rest of the league.
Kyle wants to run the football and is as committed to it as any coach in the league. Only Harbaugh in Baltimore is even close and they have Lamar who is an elite running QB. Again, this is not a knock on Kyle.
Are you really going to bring his record as an OC into this? Thats crazy. Kyle has a career record of 66-52 including playoffs where he is 6-3.
Well I was being told by multiple posters that play calling is not dictated by offensive philosophy, only by the score of the game. So yes his record (and scores of those games) is relevant if THAT is the point. Although the argument keeps changing so it might be time for me to check out for a bit.
That's false. What was told to you was that the score has a major influence. Nevertheless, aggressiveness is about whether or not the passes are deep, not run-pass balance. The 1982 49ers led the NFL in pass attempts. The 1999 Rams were 19th. To claim that the 1982 49ers were more aggressive is so astoundingly stupid it's actually insulting.
So let's settle that one question now: which was the more aggressive offense, the 1982 49ers, who lead the NFL in pass attempts—but ran a slow, BALL CONTROL offense, or the 1999 Rams, who are considered among the most aggressive offenses in NFL history who ran an offense that constantly pushed the ball down the field when they threw?
Pretty simple question. Will he answer it?
Probably one of the worst examples I've ever seen on the zone. The Niners in the early 80's with Walsh were completely reinventing the way the game was played. Relative to other teams in 1982, they were absolutely very aggressive. To compare them to a team 17 years in the future is so astoundingly stupid it's actually insulting.
No, they weren't. The narrative EVEN THEN was "the 49ers short passes are long handoffs." The aggressive teams were the Chargers, the Dolphins, etc.
Montana was 9th in the NFL in YPA in his first season as the starter. 8th in attempts and yards. And yes, they absolutely were reinventing the game. It's well documented that Walsh and the WCO were doing things no team had ever done. Thank you for at least backing off the comparison to a team two decades later.
YPA is not a measurement of passing aggression. It's a measurement of YARDS AFTER CATCH or passing aggression or a combination of both. It's impossible to know without knowing air yards, which you mock because it's been consistently inconvenient for your Jimmy love.
Reinventing the game is not the same as being aggressive. In fact, the way they reinvented the game is by utilizing SHORT passes (e.g., SAFE, CONSISTENT, LOW RISK) to replace the run game.
Oh I see, y'all think this is about Jimmy. Now I understand why you're so triggered. Geezus man, let it go. We're talking about Kyle's offensive philosophy. He's had MANY more QB's than just Jimmy and Purdy.
Kyle's philosophy has been pretty balanced and now that passing is more efficient the offense is now stronger than it has been in the 49ers era in a long long time
No I don't hate Kyle. Stop projecting.
the same can be said towards you.. but hey thats your own beef with Kyle
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agreed.
A coach can also be conservative or aggressive in establishing a particular facet of an offense.
Maybe if we're trying to have an actual conversation we can try not throw labels around when it doesn't check every box. Avoid pages of arguing about the label when almost everyone agrees on the actual details of the conversation (like us being aggressive within our pass game, and also us not being a pass centric offense).
The disconnect comes from the idea Kyle being "conservative" hindered Jimmy and Brock is succeeding because of his own aggressive nature. The reality is Jimmy was not only unwilling to consistently make the throws Brock makes, he was also incapable of doing it consistently. If Kyle was dialing things back previously it had far more to do with Jimmys ability then his own desires. What the 9ers are doing right now is what Kyle wants to do as shown by the Matt Ryan numbers Golden showed.
No one has ever suggested this was going to become a passing offense. Only one person ever suggested they should and now he's arguing people were telling him the 9ers would turn into one.
Zero doubt in my mind Kyle is telling Brock great throw and read in the film room once he actually saw the all 22.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
i love dime and dart, cuz those actually make sense lol
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.
So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?
When he's top 5 in passing attempts he will be.
That said, "conservative" may not be a fair word. Kyle is aggressively conservative within the limited passing attempts he chooses to use.
He's about balance and efficiency and calculated shots.
There's nothing wrong with that but let's not act like this is some pass centric offense esp. by today's standards.
Good post. For some reason the troops are getting triggered by the word "conservative" as if it's an insult. We'll use a different word, geezus lol.
Only in the WZ can a team be dead last in passing attempts be spun into some wide open pass centric offense.
As to what happens inside those numbers is a different topic.
The real reason this has triggered a few is because they used to argue having a different QB, we'd become pass centric. I know because we used to predict the run/pass ratios annually. It showed who quickly didn't understand who Kyle was as a HC.
Only on the Webzone can someone think people are stupid enough to not notice you're replacing AGGRESSIVE with "pass-centric offense." That's LITERALLY A LOGICAL FALLACY, and flagrant attempt at deception. But it's comical, because you actually think someone here is dumb enough to fall for that.
so STOP saying "pass-centric offense" because you are simply verbally masturbating with that. No one is arguing Kyle is "pass-centric." We're arguing he's AGGRESSIVE, because literally the only time he's ran a DINK AND DUNK offense is with Jimmy.
Originally posted by NCommand:What criteria are you basing this on ?
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agreed.
A coach can also be conservative or aggressive in establishing a particular facet of an offense.
Maybe if we're trying to have an actual conversation we can try not throw labels around when it doesn't check every box. Avoid pages of arguing about the label when almost everyone agrees on the actual details of the conversation (like us being aggressive within our pass game, and also us not being a pass centric offense).
The disconnect comes from the idea Kyle being "conservative" hindered Jimmy and Brock is succeeding because of his own aggressive nature. The reality is Jimmy was not only unwilling to consistently make the throws Brock makes, he was also incapable of doing it consistently. If Kyle was dialing things back previously it had far more to do with Jimmys ability then his own desires. What the 9ers are doing right now is what Kyle wants to do as shown by the Matt Ryan numbers Golden showed.
No one has ever suggested this was going to become a passing offense. Only one person ever suggested they should and now he's arguing people were telling him the 9ers would turn into one.
Zero doubt in my mind Kyle is telling Brock great throw and read in the film room once he actually saw the all 22.
LOL. This is a lie. Numerous fans said we'd move from a run centric to pass centric offense once we had a better passer.
A fallacy that remains with a much better QB.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.
So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?
When he's top 5 in passing attempts he will be.
That said, "conservative" may not be a fair word. Kyle is aggressively conservative within the limited passing attempts he chooses to use.
He's about balance and efficiency and calculated shots.
There's nothing wrong with that but let's not act like this is some pass centric offense esp. by today's standards.
Good post. For some reason the troops are getting triggered by the word "conservative" as if it's an insult. We'll use a different word, geezus lol.
Only in the WZ can a team be dead last in passing attempts be spun into some wide open pass centric offense.
As to what happens inside those numbers is a different topic.
The real reason this has triggered a few is because they used to argue having a different QB, we'd become pass centric. I know because we used to predict the run/pass ratios annually. It showed who quickly didn't understand who Kyle was as a HC.
Only on the Webzone can someone think people are stupid enough to not notice you're replacing AGGRESSIVE with "pass-centric offense." That's LITERALLY A LOGICAL FALLACY, and flagrant attempt at deception. But it's comical, because you actually think someone here is dumb enough to fall for that.
so STOP saying "pass-centric offense" because you are simply verbally masturbating with that. No one is arguing Kyle is "pass-centric." We're arguing he's AGGRESSIVE, because literally the only time he's ran a DINK AND DUNK offense is with Jimmy.
Triggered much? You must have been one who thought we'd become more pass centric.
Should we move into "prudently aggressive" territory where Kyle dials up his usual 2-3 deep shots per game and has a heart attack when Brock dials up his own off a designed check down?
Originally posted by Furlow:
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
Originally posted by Furlow:
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Furlow:
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
funny cuz literally the one thing all nfl fans make fun of him about is the need to keep passing as the falcons oc in the super bowl. falcons fans wish he became conservative then.
and not a three by three, but a TRIPLE TRIPLE 
Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Furlow:
I have no beef with Kyle. I just think he's conservative, based on all of the evidence in front of us. You disagree. We can argue about it like grown ups or you can keep interjecting tears and emotions.
funny cuz literally the one thing all nfl fans make fun of him about is the need to keep passing as the falcons oc in the super bowl. falcons fans wish he became conservative then.
There's really no point in bringing this stuff up. Their minds are made up.
on a more important note.... This guy eats In and Out PLAIN.....
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agreed.
A coach can also be conservative or aggressive in establishing a particular facet of an offense.
Maybe if we're trying to have an actual conversation we can try not throw labels around when it doesn't check every box. Avoid pages of arguing about the label when almost everyone agrees on the actual details of the conversation (like us being aggressive within our pass game, and also us not being a pass centric offense).
The disconnect comes from the idea Kyle being "conservative" hindered Jimmy and Brock is succeeding because of his own aggressive nature. The reality is Jimmy was not only unwilling to consistently make the throws Brock makes, he was also incapable of doing it consistently. If Kyle was dialing things back previously it had far more to do with Jimmys ability then his own desires. What the 9ers are doing right now is what Kyle wants to do as shown by the Matt Ryan numbers Golden showed.
No one has ever suggested this was going to become a passing offense. Only one person ever suggested they should and now he's arguing people were telling him the 9ers would turn into one.
Zero doubt in my mind Kyle is telling Brock great throw and read in the film room once he actually saw the all 22.
LOL. This is a lie. Numerous fans said we'd move from a run centric to pass centric offense once we had a better passer.
A fallacy that remains with a much better QB.