QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
i love dime and dart, cuz those actually make sense lol

Dime and dart aren't necessarily the same though. Darts are bullet passes on a line. Dimes are just pinpoint accurate regardless of speed of throw. A rainbow could be a dime. A rainbow cannot be a dart.

I didn't say they were the same

LOL



EDIT: sorry apparently this was posted already.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That's what an aggressive pass means. It means you throw it down field, where the risk is higher. You're taking more risk. That's literally being aggressive in this context. Aggression means high risk, high reward. That's what throwing further down the field is: being aggressive.

Yall are talking two different things, lol. Is there even an actual disagreement here?

NCCommand has tried to slip in "pass-centric" when the discussion is about aggressiveness. He is doing it because it's convenient to his lingering attraction to Jimmy. And I don't blame him, Jimmy is objectively hot.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Crazy to think Brock still learning Kyle's offense, and at the same time Kyle is learning the limit of Brock's abilities

B-ROCK's not learning the offense anymore, he's just learning MORE on how to read NFL defenses baby !!!

WOOOOOOOOO !!!!

Thank you. There's a difference between learning the offense and learning how to read NFL defenses.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

When he's top 5 in passing attempts he will be.

That said, "conservative" may not be a fair word. Kyle is aggressively conservative within the limited passing attempts he chooses to use.

He's about balance and efficiency and calculated shots.

There's nothing wrong with that but let's not act like this is some pass centric offense esp. by today's standards.

Good post. For some reason the troops are getting triggered by the word "conservative" as if it's an insult. We'll use a different word, geezus lol.

Only in the WZ can a team be dead last in passing attempts be spun into some wide open pass centric offense.

As to what happens inside those numbers is a different topic.

The real reason this has triggered a few is because they used to argue having a different QB, we'd become pass centric. I know because we used to predict the run/pass ratios annually. It showed who quickly didn't understand who Kyle was as a HC.

Last in attempts but a lot of air yards therefore "aggressive." Lol

That's what an aggressive pass means. It means you throw it down field, where the risk is higher. You're taking more risk. That's literally being aggressive in this context. Aggression means high risk, high reward. That's what throwing further down the field is: being aggressive.

A QB who overthrows his WR by 10 yards is therefore more aggressive than a QB who hits his QB in stride. Got it.

A normal person would believe you don't actually think you're making a valid point here, but after your repeated befuddlement to the significance of air yards, I suspect you actually believe you've made a good point here.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

QB EPA Man vs Zone pic.twitter.com/YArlZsHWs3

— Jrfortgang (@throwthedamball) November 28, 2023

This is such good news. Basically the only way to beat our QB is to take advantage of our trash pass protection.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Crazy to think Brock still learning Kyle's offense, and at the same time Kyle is learning the limit of Brock's abilities

B-ROCK's not learning the offense anymore, he's just learning MORE on how to read NFL defenses baby !!!

WOOOOOOOOO !!!!

Thank you. There's a difference between learning the offense and learning how to read NFL defenses.

Depends on what someone means by "learning the offense". I think from a playbook standpoint, he's pretty got it down as well as anyone.

i think he's still learning to read/identify certain defenses and how/why the offense is designed the way it is against certain coverages. Which is normal, and realistically, sometbing all QBs should be working on every year as the league grows and adapts.

so when I think about "learning the offense", it's more the "why" and "when" Kyle does things and how those plays work against different coverages. So i view it as a combination of still trying to learn the system in practice (not in textbook) and identifying/beating certain coverages.

it really should always be an ongoing process that he becomes great at, but is always improving.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

When he's top 5 in passing attempts he will be.

That said, "conservative" may not be a fair word. Kyle is aggressively conservative within the limited passing attempts he chooses to use.

He's about balance and efficiency and calculated shots.

There's nothing wrong with that but let's not act like this is some pass centric offense esp. by today's standards.

Good post. For some reason the troops are getting triggered by the word "conservative" as if it's an insult. We'll use a different word, geezus lol.

Only in the WZ can a team be dead last in passing attempts be spun into some wide open pass centric offense.

As to what happens inside those numbers is a different topic.

The real reason this has triggered a few is because they used to argue having a different QB, we'd become pass centric. I know because we used to predict the run/pass ratios annually. It showed who quickly didn't understand who Kyle was as a HC.

Only on the Webzone can someone think people are stupid enough to not notice you're replacing AGGRESSIVE with "pass-centric offense." That's LITERALLY A LOGICAL FALLACY, and flagrant attempt at deception. But it's comical, because you actually think someone here is dumb enough to fall for that.

so STOP saying "pass-centric offense" because you are simply verbally masturbating with that. No one is arguing Kyle is "pass-centric." We're arguing he's AGGRESSIVE, because literally the only time he's ran a DINK AND DUNK offense is with Jimmy.

Triggered much? You must have been one who thought we'd become more pass centric.

Should we move into "prudently aggressive" territory where Kyle dials up his usual 2-3 deep shots per game and has a heart attack when Brock dials up his own off a designed check down?

If Kyle only dialed up 2 or 3 shots per game his QB wouldn't be leading the NFL in completed air yards per passing attack. Kyle has deep routes ALL THE TIME. When Jimmy the Conservative One was QB, those concepts that had DEEP ROUTES ALL THE TIME would end in check downs. With Brock the FRANCHISE QB, those EXACT SAME CONCEPTS WITH THE EXACT SAME DEEP ROUTES ALL THE TIME usually end in INTERMEDIATE passes, and more often than Jimmy, DEEP completions.

The scheme didn't change. The concepts didn't change. The QB changed.

Likewise, when Matt Ryan was the QB in this offense it looked a HELL of a lot like how our offense looks now, and looked very little like it did when Jimmy was here. Because like Brock, Ryan threw to the open guy 18 yards down field instead of the check down.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

QB EPA Man vs Zone pic.twitter.com/YArlZsHWs3

— Jrfortgang (@throwthedamball) November 28, 2023

This is such good news. Basically the only way to beat our QB is to take advantage of our trash pass protection.

That is pretty badass. Goffs is the only one that surprises me, he's been pretty average this year in that regard. I don't feel like the lions are all that, I view them as an above average team who plays hard but nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Crazy to think Brock still learning Kyle's offense, and at the same time Kyle is learning the limit of Brock's abilities

B-ROCK's not learning the offense anymore, he's just learning MORE on how to read NFL defenses baby !!!

WOOOOOOOOO !!!!

Thank you. There's a difference between learning the offense and learning how to read NFL defenses.

Depends on what someone means by "learning the offense". I think from a playbook standpoint, he's pretty got it down as well as anyone.

i think he's still learning to read/identify certain defenses and how/why the offense is designed the way it is against certain coverages. Which is normal, and realistically, sometbing all QBs should be working on every year as the league grows and adapts.

so when I think about "learning the offense", it's more the "why" and "when" Kyle does things and how those plays work against different coverages. So i view it as a combination of still trying to learn the system in practice (not in textbook) and identifying/beating certain coverages.

it really should always be an ongoing process that he becomes great at, but is always improving.

That's a fair assessment I think. But even that I think is probably easier than learning the actual mental and physical mechanics of seeing and recognizing the defense while you're on the field, as opposed to in the film room. I think doing it in the film room is a lot easier than on the field.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

QB EPA Man vs Zone pic.twitter.com/YArlZsHWs3

— Jrfortgang (@throwthedamball) November 28, 2023

This is such good news. Basically the only way to beat our QB is to take advantage of our trash pass protection.

That is pretty badass. Goffs is the only one that surprises me, he's been pretty average this year in that regard. I don't feel like the lions are all that, I view them as an above average team who plays hard but nothing to worry about.

Definitely seems like zone is the way to attack Prescott.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That's what an aggressive pass means. It means you throw it down field, where the risk is higher. You're taking more risk. That's literally being aggressive in this context. Aggression means high risk, high reward. That's what throwing further down the field is: being aggressive.

Yall are talking two different things, lol. Is there even an actual disagreement here?

NCCommand has tried to slip in "pass-centric" when the discussion is about aggressiveness. He is doing it because it's convenient to his lingering attraction to Jimmy. And I don't blame him, Jimmy is objectively hot.

I could care less about Jimmy. You're the one still in his thread daily.

The real issue is you thought our whole offense would change under a new QB (whom Kyle trusted) to a more pass centric offense.

Nope. Now you know.

It's the exact same offense, offensive game plan, same target areas, same run/pass ratio, same calculated 2-3 shots per game, etc.

The real difference is Brock himself. Not the weekly game plans. Not the offense.

As to "aggressive?" Again, that's Brock. Not Kyle.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Crazy to think Brock still learning Kyle's offense, and at the same time Kyle is learning the limit of Brock's abilities

B-ROCK's not learning the offense anymore, he's just learning MORE on how to read NFL defenses baby !!!

WOOOOOOOOO !!!!

Thank you. There's a difference between learning the offense and learning how to read NFL defenses.

Depends on what someone means by "learning the offense". I think from a playbook standpoint, he's pretty got it down as well as anyone.

i think he's still learning to read/identify certain defenses and how/why the offense is designed the way it is against certain coverages. Which is normal, and realistically, sometbing all QBs should be working on every year as the league grows and adapts.

so when I think about "learning the offense", it's more the "why" and "when" Kyle does things and how those plays work against different coverages. So i view it as a combination of still trying to learn the system in practice (not in textbook) and identifying/beating certain coverages.

it really should always be an ongoing process that he becomes great at, but is always improving.

That's a fair assessment I think. But even that I think is probably easier than learning the actual mental and physical mechanics of seeing and recognizing the defense while you're on the field, as opposed to in the film room. I think doing it in the film room is a lot easier than on the field.

Absolutely, the experience on the field is vital and most important. Just going through the play, seeing how your guys move/sift through the field. Their timing, chemistry with the play etc - that is huge. Especially when it comes to having more off schedule plays and reaction timing on normal plays.

it was something that always concerned me about Trey, he had about 400 passes in high school and college combined - everything he saw on the field, every play, was essentially his first time experiencing it. That can be over whelming for just about anyone. In contrast, Brock had like 3000 pass attempts by the time he threw his first pass in the nfl, which I think greatly helped him have a smoother transition. I don't think snaps are end all, be all, but they definitely help - experience matters.

the other part to this is that the more live reps you get, the more film you have of yourself to study and draw on when you're analyzing defenses. When you have so few reps overall, all you're doing is studying stuff you've never done and have no experience to mentally draw on.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Agreed.

A coach can also be conservative or aggressive in establishing a particular facet of an offense.

Maybe if we're trying to have an actual conversation we can try not throw labels around when it doesn't check every box. Avoid pages of arguing about the label when almost everyone agrees on the actual details of the conversation (like us being aggressive within our pass game, and also us not being a pass centric offense).

The disconnect comes from the idea Kyle being "conservative" hindered Jimmy and Brock is succeeding because of his own aggressive nature. The reality is Jimmy was not only unwilling to consistently make the throws Brock makes, he was also incapable of doing it consistently. If Kyle was dialing things back previously it had far more to do with Jimmys ability then his own desires. What the 9ers are doing right now is what Kyle wants to do as shown by the Matt Ryan numbers Golden showed.

No one has ever suggested this was going to become a passing offense. Only one person ever suggested they should and now he's arguing people were telling him the 9ers would turn into one.

Zero doubt in my mind Kyle is telling Brock great throw and read in the film room once he actually saw the all 22.

LOL. This is a lie. Numerous fans said we'd move from a run centric to pass centric offense once we had a better passer.

A fallacy that remains with a much better QB.

I don't have data to back this up but this is Just how it's "felt" over the years, with Kyle - he's become more grounded/disciplined in the run game over the years of him being an OC/HC. I feel like his instinct is to rely on the pass game when things get tough and/or critical - sometimes to his to detriment.

to me, it's not really a matter of which type of play does he run more often, but what type of situations does he run/pass the ball. It's just always felt like me that when the situation got tough, he relied on the passing game, but that never really worked cause of our qb situation. So we will see as time goes on. He's also seemed to rely to on the run game in crunch time more the last few years, which can be a really good thing

No question. Good post.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

QB EPA Man vs Zone pic.twitter.com/YArlZsHWs3

— Jrfortgang (@throwthedamball) November 28, 2023

This is such good news. Basically the only way to beat our QB is to take advantage of our trash pass protection.

That is pretty badass. Goffs is the only one that surprises me, he's been pretty average this year in that regard. I don't feel like the lions are all that, I view them as an above average team who plays hard but nothing to worry about.

Definitely seems like zone is the way to attack Prescott.

Didn't we play a lot of zone against them? I think at that point in the season, we were running a lot of zone. I think it was after the bye week that we started playing more man/press.

worked for us!