QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
The point is my very first sentence.

Irrelevant.

Why don't you do this with Marshall Faulk or Roger Craig some seasons? They had yards per target numbers that would've led the NFL in yards per attempt, and nearly all of their receptions were at or near the line of scrimmage. They also caught more balls there than Brock threw there in 2023.

Fans like you start with the conclusion you want and then work backwards to try to get to the premises.

"Well, if you take away this throw, and that throw, and this throw, and that throw, then he only did this, and then that's not all that great. Hence, he's not all that great."

You can do that with every player in the game.

I was wrong. You weren't as close to landing on the point as I thought.

Feel free to link posts where I ever described Brock as an elite QB though.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I was wrong. You weren't as close to landing on the point as I thought.

Feel free to link posts where I ever described Brock as an elite QB though.

The point is that I disproved your point. Brock wasn't throwing many balls behind the line of scrimmage, hence yards per attempt there is meaningless in the grand scheme of what he did.

Do you consider Steve Young elite?

Here's what he looked like, since you probably forgot:

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
The point is that I disproved your point. Brock wasn't throwing many balls behind the line of scrimmage, hence yards per attempt there is meaningless in the grand scheme of what he did.

Do you consider Steve Young elite?

Here's what he looked like, since you probably forgot:

That wasn't at all the point, though. Nothing you said takes away from the point. The two paragraphs you typed in your response, that I bolded, highlighted the point. Unintentionally of course, because you're not very bright.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
That wasn't at all the point, though. Nothing you said takes away from the point. The two paragraphs you typed in your response, that I bolded, highlighted the point. Unintentionally of course, because you're not very bright.

That is exactly the point. Your argument is fallacious.

Here's what you said again: They are used to diminish the importance of the numbers! Which they 100 percent do, whether Brock is great or not.

When you can lead the league in YPA if you never had a completion past the line of scrimmage, it lets you know that the teammates are skewing those numbers. This is a good thing if you're a 49ers fan, lol.

It doesn't matter what you CAN do. Brock DIDN'T do that. Hence his teammates are not skewing those numbers, because he didn't do that.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
That is exactly the point. Your argument is fallacious.

Here's what you said again: They are used to diminish the importance of the numbers! Which they 100 percent do, whether Brock is great or not.

When you can lead the league in YPA if you never had a completion past the line of scrimmage, it lets you know that the teammates are skewing those numbers. This is a good thing if you're a 49ers fan, lol.

It doesn't matter what you CAN do. Brock DIDN'T do that. Hence his teammates are not skewing those numbers, because he didn't do that.

That was an example of how Brock's numbers can be skewed by teammates. Not a comment about what types of passes Brock was throwing and/or how often he was throwing them.

You added to those examples in the parts of your response I highlighted. Particularly in regards to 'Screenbo'. Thanks for that.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
That was an example of how Brock's numbers can be skewed by teammates. Not a comment about what types of passes Brock was throwing and/or how often he was throwing them.

You added to those examples in the parts of your response I highlighted. Particularly in regards to 'Screenbo'. Thanks for that.

"Can" be? Could be? In make believe land?

Kareem Hunt averaged 10.8 yards per target for the Queefs in 2018. Stat Paddy Mahomo's stats can be skewed by teammates.

I'm sure you agree. What a totally meaningful statement.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
"Can" be? Could be? In make believe land?

Kareem Hunt averaged 10.8 yards per target for the Queefs in 2018. Stat Paddy Mahomo's stats can be skewed by teammates.

I'm sure you agree. What a totally meaningful statement.

Of course they can. That's the entire point. These statistics are better viewed in the context of passing offense versus QB performance. You can see the differences in Mahomes and the Chiefs numbers now that they don't have the same level of talent at the skill positions.

It's meaningful when you have dips**ts like yourself claiming Brock Purdy was the best QB in football by a landslide because he led in stats like YPA. Again… not very bright.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Of course they can. That's the entire point. These statistics are better viewed in the context of passing offense versus QB performance. You can see the differences in Mahomes and the Chiefs numbers now that they don't have the same level of talent at the skill positions.

It's meaningful when you have dips**ts like yourself claiming Brock Purdy was the best QB in football by a landslide because he led in stats like YPA. Again… not very bright.

DopeyJoe: I see you're getting upset because I pointed out how what you actually said is fallacious, and you're now trying to weasel your way out of the obvious illogical conclusion.

Here's what you said, again: When you can lead the league in YPA if you never had a completion past the line of scrimmage, it lets you know that the teammates are skewing those numbers.

When you CAN do something, that does not mean that something IS (are) happening.

Hence, it means absolutely nothing, because Brock wasn't doing it. What you think he could have done doesn't matter (that's also like arguing that a running back averaging a high yards per carry average on limited touches in a passing oriented offense proves that the offense COULD gain huge yards per carry if they ran the ball every time).

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
DopeyJoe: I see you're getting upset because I pointed out how what you actually said is fallacious, and you're now trying to weasel your way out of the obvious illogical conclusion.

Here's what you said, again: When you can lead the league in YPA if you never had a completion past the line of scrimmage, it lets you know that the teammates are skewing those numbers.

When you CAN do something, that does not mean that something IS (are) happening.

Hence, it means absolutely nothing, because Brock wasn't doing it. What you think he could have done doesn't matter (that's also like arguing that a running back averaging a high yards per carry average on limited touches in a passing oriented offense proves that the offense COULD gain huge yards per carry if they ran the ball every time).

Except that was happening, through mid December of the season at least. And again, it's just an example to show that YPA is going to be affected by teammate performance as well as scheme. This should be easy to understand.

You remove that comment from it's context and still can't get it right, lol.

How about you link some of those posts you found.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Except that was happening, through mid December of the season at least. And again, it's just an example to show that YPA is going to be affected by teammate performance as well as scheme. This should be easy to understand.

You remove that comment from it's context and still can't get it right, lol.

How about you link some of those posts you found.

It wasn't. Brock threw fewer balls at or near the line of scrimmage than any other QB in football.

Every stat for every player ever is affected by various things. You don't know enough about football to even know what it is players are supposed to be doing, though, so you're not qualified to talk about any of that. You think when a QB runs around for no reason and makes throws more difficult than they need to be that this means the QB is playing better than a QB who makes things as easy on himself as possible.

You're like those basketball fans who think Michael Jordan had "no handles" because he didn't over-dribble like a Harlem Globe Trotter or And One clown.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
It wasn't. Brock threw fewer balls at or near the line of scrimmage than any other QB in football.

Every stat for every player ever is affected by various things. You don't know enough about football to even know what it is players are supposed to be doing, though, so you're not qualified to talk about any of that. You think when a QB runs around for no reason and makes throws more difficult than they need to be that this means the QB is playing better than a QB who makes things as easy on himself as possible.

You're like those basketball fans who think Michael Jordan had "no handles" because he didn't over-dribble like a Harlem Globe Trotter or And One clown.

It's a rate stat, genius. If Brock had no attempts* past the line of scrimmage through mid December of last season, he still would have led the league in YPA. That isn't true of any other QB in the league.

It's not a statement about how often Brock was throwing those passes. It's not a statement about whether he was successful down the field. It's a statement about the quality of his teammates and the scheme. All of those things, in addition to QB play, are what contribute to YPA.

Brock's numbers were great, including stats like YPA and AirYards, because he was ultra efficient in the intermediate range. He wasn't a checkdown artist, and he also wasn't the best deep passer in the league.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
It's a rate stat, genius. If Brock had no attempts* past the line of scrimmage through mid December of last season, he still would have led the league in YPA. That isn't true of any other QB in the league.

It's not a statement about how often Brock was throwing those passes. It's not a statement about whether he was successful down the field. It's a statement about the quality of his teammates and the scheme. All of those things, in addition to QB play, are what contribute to YPA.

Brock's numbers were great, including stats like YPA and AirYards, because he was ultra efficient in the intermediate range. He wasn't a checkdown artist, and he also wasn't the best deep passer in the league.

But he rarely didn't throw past the line of scrimmage, hence it's inconsequential. It does nothing to diminish his stats because he wasn't throwing balls like that enough for it to matter.

You were responding to SteveWallacesHelmet, who made the accurate point that people only use this garbage against Brock and not against other QBs. This is mostly true. I've heard it used occasionally by fans for other QBs, but only Brock and Jimmy have gotten it to this extent.

Also, nobody ever said "product of a system" (besides me) for an NFL QB (I know because I was always arguing for this on forums for various QBs, such as Kurt Warner) prior to Kyle Shanahan joining the 49ers. That was always a term for college QBs who played in gimmick offenses.

He was the best deep passer in the league. Set a record for completion percentage since PFF started tracking it, and all of his deep throws were perfectly in stride.

Nobody ever tries to diminish Stat Paddy Mahomo's numbers but me. Nobody cares that he had a 1st ballot HOF WR who is also the fastest player in football, and that the Queefs are always among the leaders in RAC yards. Nobody cares about the fact Andy Reid schemes guys open underneath by a 5 yard radius. Nobody cares how wide open Tyreek Hill was in the SB on the biggest play of the game. Nobody cares about all the screens and flip tossues and shovel passes Stat Paddy throws in the red zone to pad his TD throws numbers. You sure as s**t don't care. You think he's among the greatest players of all-time because...wait a minute, didn't you try to use NUMBERS in the postseason to try to make this argument? The hypocrisy...

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
They are used to diminish the importance of the numbers! Which they 100 percent do, whether Brock is great or not.

When you can lead the league in YPA if you never had a completion past the line of scrimmage, it lets you know that the teammates are skewing those numbers. This is a good thing if you're a 49ers fan, lol.

Didn't he lead the league in AYA which he can't do throwinf passes behind the LOS all the time.

I see this was never answered. Yes Purdy led the league in AYA in 2023 with 5.5. Tua was 2nd at 5.1. This season Purdy was 2nd in AYA with 5.1. Darnold was 1st with 5.2.

The argument that Purdy is throwing behind the LOS and living off of YAC is absurd.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
But he rarely didn't throw past the line of scrimmage, hence it's inconsequential. It does nothing to diminish his stats because he wasn't throwing balls like that enough for it to matter.

You were responding to SteveWallacesHelmet, who made the accurate point that people only use this garbage against Brock and not against other QBs. This is mostly true. I've heard it used occasionally by fans for other QBs, but only Brock and Jimmy have gotten it to this extent.

Also, nobody ever said "product of a system" (besides me) for an NFL QB (I know because I was always arguing for this on forums for various QBs, such as Kurt Warner) prior to Kyle Shanahan joining the 49ers. That was always a term for college QBs who played in gimmick offenses.

He was the best deep passer in the league. Set a record for completion percentage since PFF started tracking it, and all of his deep throws were perfectly in stride.

Nobody ever tries to diminish Stat Paddy Mahomo's numbers but me. Nobody cares that he had a 1st ballot HOF WR who is also the fastest player in football, and that the Queefs are always among the leaders in RAC yards. Nobody cares about the fact Andy Reid schemes guys open underneath by a 5 yard radius. Nobody cares how wide open Tyreek Hill was in the SB on the biggest play of the game. Nobody cares about all the screens and flip tossues and shovel passes Stat Paddy throws in the red zone to pad his TD throws numbers. You sure as s**t don't care. You think he's among the greatest players of all-time because...wait a minute, didn't you try to use NUMBERS in the postseason to try to make this argument? The hypocrisy...

Good lord man, I didn't use numbers in the postseason to make my argument. I was using your argument against you. I'm not big on numbers period and the bulk of these arguments I'm making center around why. You can try to find posts where I do if you'd like. Try not to lie like last time.

I can't answer for what other fans say, nor do I care. Most people will just cite numbers with no context, or team record… and obviously I'm not a fan of that.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
It wasn't. Brock threw fewer balls at or near the line of scrimmage than any other QB in football.

Every stat for every player ever is affected by various things. You don't know enough about football to even know what it is players are supposed to be doing, though, so you're not qualified to talk about any of that. You think when a QB runs around for no reason and makes throws more difficult than they need to be that this means the QB is playing better than a QB who makes things as easy on himself as possible.

You're like those basketball fans who think Michael Jordan had "no handles" because he didn't over-dribble like a Harlem Globe Trotter or And One clown.

It's a rate stat, genius. If Brock had no attempts* past the line of scrimmage through mid December of last season, he still would have led the league in YPA. That isn't true of any other QB in the league.

It's not a statement about how often Brock was throwing those passes. It's not a statement about whether he was successful down the field. It's a statement about the quality of his teammates and the scheme. All of those things, in addition to QB play, are what contribute to YPA.

Brock's numbers were great, including stats like YPA and AirYards, because he was ultra efficient in the intermediate range. He wasn't a checkdown artist, and he also wasn't the best deep passer in the league.

But he was.

Deep Passing
"A deep pass by PFF standards is any pass that is targeted and travels at least 20 yards in the air, past the line of scrimmage."
https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-signature-statistics-a-glossary

1. Brock Purdy, San Francisco 49ers1.048 EPA, 58.8% Positive EPA Rate
"Purdy led all quarterbacks in EPA on deep passes, nearly doubling his mark from 2022 (0.547). He finished first in positive EPA rate and threw for 12 touchdowns and 38 first downs on such throws while recording 19 big-time time throws to only three turnover-worthy plays. He also generated a 134.7 passer rating on deep throws, the second-best mark in the league."
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-top-deep-passers-epa-2023-season