QB Brock Purdy Thread

Just want to correct some things on the non-exclusive franchise tag and Lamar Jackson. The franchise tag has existed for 32 years now. Six quarterbacks have been non-exclusive franchise tagged during this period.

• Steve Young - 1993 49ers - Extended.
• Jim Harbaugh - 1996 Colts - Signed Tender. Extended a month later.
• Drew Brees - 2005 Chargers - Signed Tender. Left for Saints a year later.
• Matt Cassel - 2009 Pats - Signed Tender. Traded to KC. Extended with KC months later.
• Kirk Cousins - 2016 Commies - Signed Tender. Exclusive franchise tagged in 2017. Signed Tender. Left for Vikings in 2018.
• Lamar Jackson - 2023 Ravens - Extended.

None of these quarterbacks signed or even negotiated offer sheets with another club. Only once has a non-exclusive franchise tagged player of any position started the process of negotiating with another team. That one instance was an extreme situation in which bridges were burnt and the relationship was no longer reconcilable. Washington had traded for Sean Gilbert in 1996 with 1 year left on his contract. Gilbert had a great year that season and was seeking a market deal. Washington didn't want to pay him the market deal he wanted. Gilbert and his agent tried to negotiate. Washington refused, held firm on their original offer, and exclusive franchise tagged Gilbert. The team also began leaking to the media that Gilbert was selfish for wanting a market deal. Gilbert got pissed and said he'd sit out for the year if a long-term deal wasn't worked out. Casserly didn't like the threat, so he went on the record and told the media that if Gilbert held out the 1997 season, the team would franchise tag Gilbert again in 1998.

Gilbert held out that 1997 season and Casserly tagged him with the non-exclusive franchise tag the following offseason. Gilbert, his agent, and the NFLPA then sued the team/league. They argued that the threat made by Casserly showed the team was acting in bad faith with their use of the franchise tag and therefore it should not be allowed to apply. That Gilbert should be a free agent. The arbiter in the case decided for Washington, stating that the team had offered Gilbert a contract prior to applying the franchise tag to him, meeting the requirements set forth by the CBA. Washington wanted to move on from Gilbert and Gilbert didn't want to play for Washington. Casserly signed Stubblefield in free agency and traded for Dan Wilkinson. Washington worked other teams at the owners meetings to trade Gilbert. Carolina was the only team interested as they had plenty of cap space and a need for DL talent. Washington wanted a 1st round pick in the 1998 draft to replace the pick they gave up to acquire Wilkinson as part of any trade package. Carolina wasn't willing to part with their 1998 first-round pick, ending the trade talks. Carolina was still interested in obtaining Gilbert so they went the offer sheet route. There was a presumption that the picks had to be in the immediate drafts, such that Carolina would need to put up their 1998 and 1999 first-round picks. Carolina interpreted the CBA as simply two first-round picks. So they negotiated an offer sheet with Gilbert and put up their 1999 and 2000 first-round picks as compensation. Carolina's interpretation of the CBA was the correct one and Washington took the two picks Carolina offered.

Other clubs simply do not sign non-exclusive franchise tagged players with the hope the prior club does not match. Once the player signs an offer sheet, such a contract would obviously be a top-51 contract and therefore count against the new clubs salary cap. This would be happening at the same time as the start of free agency. The prior team has 5 days to match the offer sheet, which means 5 days of cap space being tied up instead of being used in free agency. Non-exclusive franchise tagged players cannot negotiate with other clubs until the official start of free agency. There is no "legal tampering period" for tagged players.

When other clubs are interested in acquiring non-exclusive franchise tagged players, those clubs will trade for those players, not sign them to offer sheets. Recent non-exclusive franchise tagged players that were traded include Brian Burns, L'Jarius Sneed, Davante Adams, Yannick Ngakoue, Jadeveon Clowney, Frank Clark, Dee Ford, Jarvis Landry. The league and the PA noticed this trend and implemented some changes in the 2020 CBA to prevent some bad faith uses.

With respect to a trade involving any non-exclusive rights player subject to a Tender or Qualifying Offer who is a Nonexclusive Franchise Player or a Restricted Free Agent who is subject to a Qualifying Offer with Draft Choice Compensation, the following restrictions shall apply: (i) the Clubs may not agree to draft choice consideration that is greater than the draft choice compensation specified for the Tender or Qualifying Offer; (ii) the trade may not include the acquisition of another player's Player Contract; and (iii) the player and the NFLPA must approve in advance any such trade that takes place during the Signing Period.

In short, non-exclusive franchise tagged players cannot be traded for more than 2 first-round picks, the trade cannot include any other players, and the player/PA have refusal rights through July.

Getting back to Lamar, the Ravens knew that other teams do not mess with offer sheets for non-exclusive franchise players. Teams rarely go through the offer sheet process on lesser tags. The Ravens were always in on keeping Lamar. They were in a position where the only team that could realistically outbid them for Lamar were the Bears, who were still infatuated with Justin Fields at the time. The Ravens saw an opportunity where they thought they could win the negotiation with Lamar and went for it. They were hoping Lamar, negotiating his contract himself, would get spooked into signing the Ravens low-ball offer when nobody came running to him with an offer sheet. It didn't work and actually caused Lamar to dig in further.

While the Ravens avoided having to pay Lamar a fully guaranteed contract, the slow rolling of the negotiation did cost the team 2 years they could have spread new spending onto. Market contracts went up 35M as others got their deals done ahead of Lamar. The Ravens also conceded some personnel decision making influence to Lamar, which seems pretty big considering how the Ravens organization have typically run.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
You can see that he's talking about structure of the contract, not aav.. as I pointed out to you. Just look at the guaranteed money as an example. He would like to test the market if Brock asks for a top of the market deal, which Love's is not. This isn't complicated.

49AllTheTime isn't dumb he just loves to play devils advocate for whatever reason. I think you and I have been about as transparent as possible on this subject. If folks don't get it at this pt, then I got nothing else for them lol.

Originally posted by Typecast:
Just want to correct some things on the non-exclusive franchise tag and Lamar Jackson. The franchise tag has existed for 32 years now. Six quarterbacks have been non-exclusive franchise tagged during this period.

• Steve Young - 1993 49ers - Extended.
• Jim Harbaugh - 1996 Colts - Signed Tender. Extended a month later.
• Drew Brees - 2005 Chargers - Signed Tender. Left for Saints a year later.
• Matt Cassel - 2009 Pats - Signed Tender. Traded to KC. Extended with KC months later.
• Kirk Cousins - 2016 Commies - Signed Tender. Exclusive franchise tagged in 2017. Signed Tender. Left for Vikings in 2018.
• Lamar Jackson - 2023 Ravens - Extended.

None of these quarterbacks signed or even negotiated offer sheets with another club. Only once has a non-exclusive franchise tagged player of any position started the process of negotiating with another team. That one instance was an extreme situation in which bridges were burnt and the relationship was no longer reconcilable. Washington had traded for Sean Gilbert in 1996 with 1 year left on his contract. Gilbert had a great year that season and was seeking a market deal. Washington didn't want to pay him the market deal he wanted. Gilbert and his agent tried to negotiate. Washington refused, held firm on their original offer, and exclusive franchise tagged Gilbert. The team also began leaking to the media that Gilbert was selfish for wanting a market deal. Gilbert got pissed and said he'd sit out for the year if a long-term deal wasn't worked out. Casserly didn't like the threat, so he went on the record and told the media that if Gilbert held out the 1997 season, the team would franchise tag Gilbert again in 1998.

Gilbert held out that 1997 season and Casserly tagged him with the non-exclusive franchise tag the following offseason. Gilbert, his agent, and the NFLPA then sued the team/league. They argued that the threat made by Casserly showed the team was acting in bad faith with their use of the franchise tag and therefore it should not be allowed to apply. That Gilbert should be a free agent. The arbiter in the case decided for Washington, stating that the team had offered Gilbert a contract prior to applying the franchise tag to him, meeting the requirements set forth by the CBA. Washington wanted to move on from Gilbert and Gilbert didn't want to play for Washington. Casserly signed Stubblefield in free agency and traded for Dan Wilkinson. Washington worked other teams at the owners meetings to trade Gilbert. Carolina was the only team interested as they had plenty of cap space and a need for DL talent. Washington wanted a 1st round pick in the 1998 draft to replace the pick they gave up to acquire Wilkinson as part of any trade package. Carolina wasn't willing to part with their 1998 first-round pick, ending the trade talks. Carolina was still interested in obtaining Gilbert so they went the offer sheet route. There was a presumption that the picks had to be in the immediate drafts, such that Carolina would need to put up their 1998 and 1999 first-round picks. Carolina interpreted the CBA as simply two first-round picks. So they negotiated an offer sheet with Gilbert and put up their 1999 and 2000 first-round picks as compensation. Carolina's interpretation of the CBA was the correct one and Washington took the two picks Carolina offered.

Other clubs simply do not sign non-exclusive franchise tagged players with the hope the prior club does not match. Once the player signs an offer sheet, such a contract would obviously be a top-51 contract and therefore count against the new clubs salary cap. This would be happening at the same time as the start of free agency. The prior team has 5 days to match the offer sheet, which means 5 days of cap space being tied up instead of being used in free agency. Non-exclusive franchise tagged players cannot negotiate with other clubs until the official start of free agency. There is no "legal tampering period" for tagged players.

When other clubs are interested in acquiring non-exclusive franchise tagged players, those clubs will trade for those players, not sign them to offer sheets. Recent non-exclusive franchise tagged players that were traded include Brian Burns, L'Jarius Sneed, Davante Adams, Yannick Ngakoue, Jadeveon Clowney, Frank Clark, Dee Ford, Jarvis Landry. The league and the PA noticed this trend and implemented some changes in the 2020 CBA to prevent some bad faith uses.

With respect to a trade involving any non-exclusive rights player subject to a Tender or Qualifying Offer who is a Nonexclusive Franchise Player or a Restricted Free Agent who is subject to a Qualifying Offer with Draft Choice Compensation, the following restrictions shall apply: (i) the Clubs may not agree to draft choice consideration that is greater than the draft choice compensation specified for the Tender or Qualifying Offer; (ii) the trade may not include the acquisition of another player's Player Contract; and (iii) the player and the NFLPA must approve in advance any such trade that takes place during the Signing Period.

In short, non-exclusive franchise tagged players cannot be traded for more than 2 first-round picks, the trade cannot include any other players, and the player/PA have refusal rights through July.

Getting back to Lamar, the Ravens knew that other teams do not mess with offer sheets for non-exclusive franchise players. Teams rarely go through the offer sheet process on lesser tags. The Ravens were always in on keeping Lamar. They were in a position where the only team that could realistically outbid them for Lamar were the Bears, who were still infatuated with Justin Fields at the time. The Ravens saw an opportunity where they thought they could win the negotiation with Lamar and went for it. They were hoping Lamar, negotiating his contract himself, would get spooked into signing the Ravens low-ball offer when nobody came running to him with an offer sheet. It didn't work. While the Ravens avoided having to pay Lamar a fully guaranteed contract, the slow rolling of the negotiation cost 2 years in which they could have spread new spending onto. Market contracts went up 35M as others got their deals done ahead of Lamar. The Ravens also conceded some personnel decision making influence to Lamar, which seems pretty big considering how the Ravens organization has typically run.

Great post.

I just don't see what the big rush is. I personally am fine with whatever and it's obviously more nuance than just franchising next year him but why not? Could we maybe save some money on getting him signed now? Sure, but what if he's hit his ceiling? I'm not saying he has, but he wasn't great last year. He simply wasn't the same guy. I think he was injured more than we will know but what if he wasn't?

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Love Signed a 4yr 220m extension
Dak signed a 4yr 240m extension

What is the big fuss about really.. and the need to test the market ?

You can see that he's talking about structure of the contract, not aav.. as I pointed out to you. Just look at the guaranteed money as an example. He would like to test the market if Brock asks for a top of the market deal, which Love's is not. This isn't complicated.

no it's not, but you are failing at it lol

This whole dog and pony show over what he should be paid is all for nothing is what you're missing.

He said use Brock as bait to get his "true" market value. i said no way you do that unless you're really ready to trade Brock.. you can't just dangle him with no intentions to get rid of him.. so you can sign him for less. That's bad business as an org and distrust to your player,

He countered that with the ravens scenario and our scenario with BA. Both of those scenarios the players declined good offers and seeked a trade. In the end Lamar and BA signed for money. How was that an example of testing the market actually working to sign someone less?

My point in all of this is you don't test the markets unless you are ready to let that player move on to another team

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
no it's not, but you are failing at it lol

This whole dog and pony show over what he should be paid is all for nothing is what you're missing.

He said use Brock as bait to get his "true" market value. i said no way you do that unless you're really ready to trade Brock.. you can't just dangle him with no intentions to get rid of him.. so you can sign him for less. That's bad business as an org and distrust to your player,

He countered that with the ravens scenario and our scenario with BA. Both of those scenarios the players declined good offers and seeked a trade. In the end Lamar and BA signed for money. How was that an example of testing the market actually working to sign someone less?

My point in all of this is you don't test the markets unless you are ready to let that player move on to another team

And you have readily available examples for why that's not the case.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
You can see that he's talking about structure of the contract, not aav.. as I pointed out to you. Just look at the guaranteed money as an example. He would like to test the market if Brock asks for a top of the market deal, which Love's is not. This isn't complicated.

49AllTheTime isn't dumb he just loves to play devils advocate for whatever reason. I think you and I have been about as transparent as possible on this subject. If folks don't get it at this pt, then I got nothing else for them lol.

i'm my own victim of trying to see every side of a situation

i just don't see taking offers from other teams helps in this situation.. that is all

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
i'm my own victim of trying to see every side of a situation

i just don't see taking offers from other teams helps in this situation.. that is all

It might not. It's a risk on multiple fronts.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
no it's not, but you are failing at it lol

This whole dog and pony show over what he should be paid is all for nothing is what you're missing.

He said use Brock as bait to get his "true" market value. i said no way you do that unless you're really ready to trade Brock.. you can't just dangle him with no intentions to get rid of him.. so you can sign him for less. That's bad business as an org and distrust to your player,

He countered that with the ravens scenario and our scenario with BA. Both of those scenarios the players declined good offers and seeked a trade. In the end Lamar and BA signed for money. How was that an example of testing the market actually working to sign someone less?

My point in all of this is you don't test the markets unless you are ready to let that player move on to another team

And you have readily available examples for why that's not the case.

NY never said to test the market to get real offers?

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:

I just don't see what the big rush is. I personally am fine with whatever and it's obviously more nuance than just franchising next year him but why not? Could we maybe save some money on getting him signed now? Sure, but what if he's hit his ceiling? I'm not saying he has, but he wasn't great last year. He simply wasn't the same guy. I think he was injured more than we will know but what if he wasn't?

He outplayed his contract by a mile

Imagine somebody gets you out of one of the biggest f**k ups in your line of works history, and he did it for peanuts

You wouldn't pay him back? You would keep making him work for peanuts and risking injury when he doesn't have to anymore?

Originally posted by Izyniner:
This is what I know of the Purdy situation. I have been watching this team since the Montana era and Purdy is the best all around QB since Young Sure you can argue some athletic traits but overall he is the best they have had in what 30 years! I see a bunch of crying about what number to pay him but no legitimate replacement. Darnold is not legitimate. There's no can't miss in the draft and no free agent close to him. Pay him and move on. And don't give me you can't build a team once you pay him crap The playoffs are littered with teams paying there QB. Philly has no problem signing free agents and paying stars at wr. Sequin, Henry, they had no problem adding talent. Weak argument.

Philly has always structured contracts much different, they have tons of void yrs and DM. They have good players that they can consistently restructure to save cash.

Hurts also has some fake $97M cap hit in the last yr of his deal that voids. His deal was basically a 5 yr deal for $208M, his cap hit never goes higher than $41M yet folks run around using APY saying it's over $50M which isn't true. Philly has had to move on from good players damn near every yr, they draft very well and that's what keeps them going.

as far as Baltimore goes, cool they signed a RB who are cheaper than just about anyone else (besides CMC of course). Henry is making like $8M a yr. Who they paying at WR? They're also losing players every yr. They're not paying EDGE or OL currently.

SF WILL have to be better at drafting, unless you think having a $900K starting QB wasn't a benefit here? They have top 5 paid players at OT/WR/EDGE/LBer/RB.. that's not even talking about the Lenior deal and the massive bust signing for Hardgrave. they got nothing meaningful at DL outside of Bosa. We all agree the OL is a mess. We got one startable LBer.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
NY never said to test the market to get real offers?

Yes he did, conditionally. This has been explained and beaten to death.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Love Signed a 4yr 220m extension
Dak signed a 4yr 240m extension

What is the big fuss about really.. and the need to test the market ?

Go look at the breakdowns of those two deals, they are drastically different….as a fan all we should care about is their cap hits and how soon can they get out of the deal, without eating massive amounts of DM.

Folks in here have been saying the market dictates the worth. What I said is well let the market do just that instead of paying him whatever the hell he wants. Why is that so hard to grasp? Why the pushback? No one is saying don't pay him. We as fans should want as much flexibility as possible in regards to the cap, so they can continue to put proven good players around him.

My god all anyone talked about this yr is how bad whatever position you want to complain about is. Well how the hell do you expect to get better? Having a good team cost $$$

thats what i don't get the passion you are putting towards this..

say brock gets the 4yr 240m headline.. We know the numbers won't be true

Originally posted by RonnieLott:

the fact is Purdy was worse this year than last year.

Without an All-Star backing group, Purdy struggled, and we didn't even make the play offs.

Is that the future, the destiny that you want for this franchise?

What do you want the team to do?

He led the offense to the 4th most yards this past season. Not too shabby, all things considered.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
NY never said to test the market to get real offers?

Yes he did, conditionally. This has been explained and beaten to death.

you just said there's examples of that not being the case