QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

He had great stats for 30, 40 and 50 yard throws as well.
https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php?year=2023

Once again, those numbers include YAC

That would be a great point if Brock wasn't at the top of the air yard per attempt/completion stats as well. Something he did once again this season btw but with lower YAC results.

People doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to pretend Brock's arm is a problem for this offense. It's not.

And no one here will post any stats indicating he has a poor arm or is poor at throwing deep passes.

I am not waiting another 30 years to find another qb that might be better than Purdy! Sign him and figure the rest out as they go!

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Deep passing stats usually refer to balls thrown at least 20 air yrds downfield. That means anything over 20 yards is considered a deep pass. That doesn't require a stronga rm.Throwing 40 yards or more does otherwise the ball will float and hang in the air too long. Purdy can lead the league in deep passes just buy completing a high percentage between 20-25 yards. It's just one more stat that looks good but you need to know exactly how many were really deep throws. The stat also doesn't consider how open the receiver was. Did the defender lose coverage? Did he fall down? All those things affect that stat.Just like completiin percentage can be misleading. If a QB throws a lot of swing passes and short ones over the middle he's likely to have a good completion percentage. Better than a QB that's in a system requiring a lot of deep sideline throws.

No, it's exactly the opposite.

How are you posting on a football forum and you don't even have basic spatial reasoning ability or understanding of football?

The 20-25 yard range are the throws that actually require the most arm strength because they often need to be drive throws. The throw scouts look at to evaluate arm strength is the 20 yard deep out, NOT the 40+ yard bomb. The 40+ yard bomb does not require arm strength (for a professional QB...every QB who makes it to the NFL can throw it 40 yards without difficulty).

You are not supposed to drive a 40 yard throw. 40 yard throws are supposed to be thrown with arc. You are not supposed to throw a f**king 40 yard ball with velocity. Have you ever watched a football game?

Russell Wilson is known for his "moon balls." So was Jeff Blake, another guy famous for having a great deep ball.

Jimmy Garoppolo is someone who would actually "drive" 40 yard throws, which is why he was horrible at it.

Also, why do you and other Brock bashers pretend that all of these games took place in an undisclosed location and were never televised? We have the actual games that we can watch, and your hypotheticals did not happen. Brock's deep completions in 2023 were to guys with the last amount of separation on those types of throws in football.

Any run after the catch was created by Brock based on his ball placement. The defenders were right there.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
How did he end up at the top of the deep passing stats for QBs in 2023?

Bad arm but is a great deep passer?

Deep throws with arc have nothing to do with arm strength. They're about timing and accuracy.

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
It says passing attempts that travel over 40 yards. Do you have a link to the air yards numbers?

He did lead the NFL in Air Yards per attempt.

And PFF:
Brock Purdy was a deep-ball specialist in 2023: He finished first in positive EPA rate and threw for 12 touchdowns and 38 first downs on deep throws while recording 19 big-time time throws to only three turnover-worthy plays.

I will try this again, even though i've already explained it and CM also nailed it in the post you replied to just a few up from here.

PFF's version of deep ball passing is passes that traveled 20+ yards in the air (from the LoS).

The post you are linking here from FantasyPros has a bunch of different numbers in the chart. It includes air yards, however the passing interval numbers (10+, 20+, 30+, 40+, and 50+ yard passes) include yards after catch. You can verify this if you like (I did).

The reason Brock lead in AirY/A is because he dominated in the intermediate range of the field in our offense. He was exceptionally efficient in this area. CM explained this very well, and I have tried to already in the past.

Purdy was tied for 8th in the NFL in INTENDED air yards per pass attempt last year.

The idea that he's just fluffing up his numbers because he's hitting the intermediate range over and over again is nonsense.

Will Levis led the NFL in that stat last year and all he did was air the ball out. It's simply disingenuous to pretend Brock fluffed up those "deep ball" passing numbers.

Garoppolo lived off the intermediate range and he never put up the air yard numbers like Brock has.

Like what is this nonsense? We all watched the games last year. Shanahan's offense isn't Bruce Arians. If you're expecting Brock to drop 40+ yard bombs every 5 attempts it's not going to happen.

Yes the deep ball passing includes YAC. Isn't that what some people are b***hing about in here when Brock completes a pass for 40+ but it's not in front of the receiver to run with it? Do you want YAC or not?

I've asked this of a couple of people now...how many plays have there been where Brock's arm clearly is an issue where he throws a brutal pick or underthrows a WR because of arm limitation. Since his arm is apparently so weak there should be plenty of examples of this happening.

I can't go back and site a lot of specific examples but we saw some last year wehen he underthrew and the receiver had to wait for the ball. In some cases it was still a completed pass but the badly beaten defender was abler to make up ground and make the tackle preventing a TD. I saw it with Guerendo and Pearsall. The arm strength is also an issue when trying to throw into a tight window on intermediate passes.

His arm isn't terrible but it's no better than average. That limits the type of throws he can make on a consistent basis.

Problem is you can't chalk up every underthrow to arm limitations. The strongest arms in the league underthrow the deep ball too. That's how we get those bogus pi calls where the receiver has to come back to the ball. Claiming arm limitations every time a deep pass isn't perfect is just more confirmation bias

Exactly. He mentioned Guerendo, Pearsall, I know Cowing was one of them. These are all throws to rookies who didn't get a lot of practice time with Brock for various reasons.

The bulk of them were completed. There have been times where Brock owned up to underthrowing passes on purpose to ensure a completion. Like I said before - I'll always take a completed pass in those situations. It's harder to put it in front of the receiver yes, but it's also harder to catch those at times.

Like you said we see big arm QBs miss. We see them miss by underthrowing and we see them miss by overthrowing. If Purdy is completing the majority of those attempts it's not a problem that limits the offense. Yes perfect world you want him to drop it into a perfect spot where the receiver can catch it, keep running and you get the TD but those throws aren't always about arm strength. It's more about timing and chemistry with the receiver.

If we're ever in situations where Brock has to air it out 50+ yards down the field then we clearly messed up earlier in the game.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

How did he end up at the top of the deep passing stats for QBs in 2023?

Bad arm but is a great deep passer?

Deep throws with arc have nothing to do with arm strength. They're about timing and accuracy.

Agree, that is why I didn't say arm strength.

Best deep passing efficiency rating of all time according to PFF in 2023.

Originally posted by genus49:
Purdy was tied for 8th in the NFL in INTENDED air yards per pass attempt last year.

The idea that he's just fluffing up his numbers because he's hitting the intermediate range over and over again is nonsense.

Will Levis led the NFL in that stat last year and all he did was air the ball out. It's simply disingenuous to pretend Brock fluffed up those "deep ball" passing numbers.

Garoppolo lived off the intermediate range and he never put up the air yard numbers like Brock has.

Like what is this nonsense? We all watched the games last year. Shanahan's offense isn't Bruce Arians. If you're expecting Brock to drop 40+ yard bombs every 5 attempts it's not going to happen.

Yes the deep ball passing includes YAC. Isn't that what some people are b***hing about in here when Brock completes a pass for 40+ but it's not in front of the receiver to run with it? Do you want YAC or not?

I've asked this of a couple of people now...how many plays have there been where Brock's arm clearly is an issue where he throws a brutal pick or underthrows a WR because of arm limitation. Since his arm is apparently so weak there should be plenty of examples of this happening.

My point was more about statistics than Brock's arm strength. Brock was not the best deep passer in football because he led PFF's category for deep ball passing.

Jimmy G may have lived in the intermediate range in your opinion, but he wasn't remotely close to Brock's efficiency in that area… ever.

You are simply not going to get a true evaluation of a QB by citing statistics that are heavily influenced by teammates. Does that mean I have a problem with YAC? No. It means I don't think a person should continually cite statistics that include YAC as evidence he was at the top of the league in downfield throwing.

The whole arm strength thing is relevant if a QB cant read a defense.

I would argue guys like Mahomes and Allen get by not reading a defense great at times (or at all) because, they can still rocket it in there at the last moment, or buy time with their legs and get a rocket out.

For Purdy he relies on the rhythm of the offense and reading the defense rapidly. If he is late, he can use his legs, but he doesn't have that cannon to knife it in there like others. I do not think it has been an issue because he can dial up extra power when necessary. I am more concerned he keeps his mind sharp and can identify coverages fast etc.

I feel like he wasn't processing as fast this past season. Why? Well for various reasons Really. Obviously key injuries do not help. He had worse protection and that adds up in your mind. Another is most of our players don't handle man coverage very well, which doesn't mesh well with a poor o-line. That stuff to me compounds and here we are.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
My point was more about statistics than Brock's arm strength. Brock was not the best deep passer in football because he led PFF's category for deep ball passing.

Jimmy G may have lived in the intermediate range in your opinion, but he wasn't remotely close to Brock's efficiency in that area… ever.

You are simply not going to get a true evaluation of a QB by citing statistics that are heavily influenced by teammates. Does that mean I have a problem with YAC? No. It means I don't think a person should continually cite statistics that include YAC as evidence he was at the top of the league in downfield throwing.

That's fair and a different point. Stats in the NFL are very tricky and it's incredibly easy to use stats to paint a picture that may not be accurate.

I think it's fair to say that regardless of the stats that Brock isn't a dominant deep ball passer in regards to 40+ air yard throws. At the same time it's also silly to claim Brock's arm limits this offense and he can't throw it deep because of it.

Are teams going to play Purdy like they do Mahomes when he had Tyreek Hill? Of course not but once again there is a difference in people acting like Purdy can't hurt teams throwing the ball deep and ignoring that scheme and personnel play a factor in how defenses play you as well as the QB.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Purdy was tied for 8th in the NFL in INTENDED air yards per pass attempt last year.

The idea that he's just fluffing up his numbers because he's hitting the intermediate range over and over again is nonsense.

Will Levis led the NFL in that stat last year and all he did was air the ball out. It's simply disingenuous to pretend Brock fluffed up those "deep ball" passing numbers.

Garoppolo lived off the intermediate range and he never put up the air yard numbers like Brock has.

Like what is this nonsense? We all watched the games last year. Shanahan's offense isn't Bruce Arians. If you're expecting Brock to drop 40+ yard bombs every 5 attempts it's not going to happen.

Yes the deep ball passing includes YAC. Isn't that what some people are b***hing about in here when Brock completes a pass for 40+ but it's not in front of the receiver to run with it? Do you want YAC or not?

I've asked this of a couple of people now...how many plays have there been where Brock's arm clearly is an issue where he throws a brutal pick or underthrows a WR because of arm limitation. Since his arm is apparently so weak there should be plenty of examples of this happening.

My point was more about statistics than Brock's arm strength. Brock was not the best deep passer in football because he led PFF's category for deep ball passing.

Jimmy G may have lived in the intermediate range in your opinion, but he wasn't remotely close to Brock's efficiency in that area… ever.

You are simply not going to get a true evaluation of a QB by citing statistics that are heavily influenced by teammates. Does that mean I have a problem with YAC? No. It means I don't think a person should continually cite statistics that include YAC as evidence he was at the top of the league in downfield throwing.

You don't need a 100 mph hour fastball in football. 89-90 is good enough and that's what Purdy has.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
The whole arm strength thing is relevant if a QB cant read a defense.

I would argue guys like Mahomes and Allen get by not reading a defense great at times (or at all) because, they can still rocket it in there at the last moment, or buy time with their legs and get a rocket out.

For Purdy he relies on the rhythm of the offense and reading the defense rapidly. If he is late, he can use his legs, but he doesn't have that cannon to knife it in there like others. I do not think it has been an issue because he can dial up extra power when necessary. I am more concerned he keeps his mind sharp and can identify coverages fast etc.

I feel like he wasn't processing as fast this past season. Why? Well for various reasons Really. Obviously key injuries do not help. He had worse protection and that adds up in your mind. Another is most of our players don't handle man coverage very well, which doesn't mesh well with a poor o-line. That stuff to me compounds and here we are.

This is a good post. That's really when arm becomes an issue. The last second tight window throws. Big arm you can fit it in there. Weaker arm and it's a potential problem. The other times it's the on the move throws. Brock can still make them but there are levels to the throws.

The thing with Brock that I mentioned before...he has a better grasp on his arm and as long as he's not attempting to make throws his arm can't deliver on it should not be an issue.

Our offense is about anticipation, timing and that's Brock's strength. If our team is executing properly there should not be a need to make the crazy throws. So until you can find a QB who can make the routine as well as the special happen then you don't get rid of a guy like Brock.

Especially because we have many examples of guys who can do the routine and special...but fall apart in the playoffs.

When I think if his arm strength to me it's not about pushing the ball deep per se. It's more of the out breaking routes that were rarely run. Everything is in cutting routes. Need more zip on the slant routes and when squeezing the ball into tight windows. Especially when they need to beat tight man coverage. Niners rarely throw any type of back shoulder fades to the outside. You rarely see any type of easy timing routes, Especially when corners are playing soft. Just need to utilize the entire field and not everything be in breaking routes or slants across the middle. Only time we throw to the outside is to JJ on 3rd downs

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:

Purdy was tied for 8th in the NFL in INTENDED air yards per pass attempt last year.

The idea that he's just fluffing up his numbers because he's hitting the intermediate range over and over again is nonsense.

Will Levis led the NFL in that stat last year and all he did was air the ball out. It's simply disingenuous to pretend Brock fluffed up those "deep ball" passing numbers.

Garoppolo lived off the intermediate range and he never put up the air yard numbers like Brock has.

Like what is this nonsense? We all watched the games last year. Shanahan's offense isn't Bruce Arians. If you're expecting Brock to drop 40+ yard bombs every 5 attempts it's not going to happen.

Yes the deep ball passing includes YAC. Isn't that what some people are b***hing about in here when Brock completes a pass for 40+ but it's not in front of the receiver to run with it? Do you want YAC or not?

I've asked this of a couple of people now...how many plays have there been where Brock's arm clearly is an issue where he throws a brutal pick or underthrows a WR because of arm limitation. Since his arm is apparently so weak there should be plenty of examples of this happening.

My point was more about statistics than Brock's arm strength. Brock was not the best deep passer in football because he led PFF's category for deep ball passing.

Jimmy G may have lived in the intermediate range in your opinion, but he wasn't remotely close to Brock's efficiency in that area… ever.

You are simply not going to get a true evaluation of a QB by citing statistics that are heavily influenced by teammates. Does that mean I have a problem with YAC? No. It means I don't think a person should continually cite statistics that include YAC as evidence he was at the top of the league in downfield throwing.

What evidence is there that he wasn't the most efficient deep ball passer?

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
What evidence is there that he wasn't the most efficient deep ball passer?

I have the same answer for you as I did yesterday when you asked the same question.