QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by paulk205:
The 49ers own Purdy's rights for at least 2, possibly three years (though it gets expensive on year 3).

Thank you for proving my point from a few pages ago...

Originally posted by Typecast:

Originally posted by Florio:
York treats it as an inevitability, as a subject on which the team has no choice. The quarterback has earned a massive, market-level contract. Which means they have to tighten the belt elsewhere. And they're saying so.

It doesn't have to be that way. The 49ers have leverage. Purdy is under contract for $5.3 million this year. The franchise tag for the quarterback position is currently $40.241 million.

If you are dumb enough to argue about "leverage" and using the tag to punish ourselves, please stop citing the 2025 non-exclusive franchise tag value... Purdy cannot be franchise tagged this year. The non-exclusive franchise tag should be over 45M next year.

Please stop thinking the franchise tag is applicable to 2025. The deadline to apply the tag to players was on March 4th. Purdy still has a fourth year on his rookie contract, so he wasn't even eligible for the tag this year. They have 1 year of control remaining with his rookie contract then up to 3 additional years via the tag system.

Purdy gets expensive on year 1 of the tag. The cap hits on a standard structure extension (minimum salaries, 1 signing bonus, 2+ option bonus, workout/active roster bonuses in years 2+) through the first four years tops out around 20M, 30M, 40M, and 50M. When a team franchise tags the player, the cap hit immediately counts against their cap and cannot be spread upto 5 years via proration. Assuming they go the minimum franchise tags (non-exclusive, non-exclusive, exclusive), the cap hits through four years would be 5.4M, ~45M, ~55M, ~80M.

For anyone making the case that Purdy's possible extension would be too expensive and would limit the amount of money that can be spent on other players, stop advocating for the franchise tag. It's the more expensive route. You should be advocating for the team to trade him so they can draft a rookie (gl with that btw).

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
I really don't care what you think about my credibility. Saying one player was better than another is simply an opinion. And for some reason you think your opinions hold more merit than mine or anyone else's. Maybe that moderator title has gone to your head?

Re: Jennings, someone had to be the #1 WR last year. We had no-one else to get targets.

And to say a QB can't carry a team by himself is absurd. There isn't one position more critical than QB play. The elite ones make everyone else around them better. The average ones are just, average.

As for the bolded, like I have said 20x but yet you still can't acknowledge it: We absolutely do know what Brock will be like without elite playmakers. It happened last year.

I'm not sure how you can argue this. But I'm sure you will try.

I asked you a simple question and it wasn't who was playing better in that game.

I asked you which team had the better QB, OL and defense. Since the conversation was "49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL"

Your response was 49ers for all 3. My mod status has nothing to do with you being flat out wrong. Go back and see how many people laughed at your response who weren't mods. Me being a mod has nothing to do with that exchange and those weren't opinion based questions either. There were plenty of metrics, stats and actual performances to make your response laughable.

Jennings had a career game with Aiyuk playing. He was also arguably the best WR for us in the SB with all our guys healthy with Brock throwing to him. It's ok to acknowledge that Brock's play did in fact allow those guys to look better than they had been in the past. That's the whole elevation of talent you're harping on.

And lastly since you can't get a simple point…there is a difference in not having elite talent around a QB where you have a couple of key guys and then depth pieces and having those elite guys and then having most of them injured where you're having to throw to guys down on the depth chart who the QB hasn't had as much time to develop chemistry with. You do understand how that can impact a timing based offense if the QB and receivers haven't had time to get on the same page right?

If you can give me a comparable situation that Brock had where another QB elevated the team around him to something special I'd love to hear it.

Originally posted by genus49:
I asked you a simple question and it wasn't who was playing better in that game.

I asked you which team had the better QB, OL and defense. Since the conversation was "49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL"

Your response was 49ers for all 3. My mod status has nothing to do with you being flat out wrong. Go back and see how many people laughed at your response who weren't mods. Me being a mod has nothing to do with that exchange and those weren't opinion based questions either. There were plenty of metrics, stats and actual performances to make your response laughable.

Jennings had a career game with Aiyuk playing. He was also arguably the best WR for us in the SB with all our guys healthy with Brock throwing to him. It's ok to acknowledge that Brock's play did in fact allow those guys to look better than they had been in the past. That's the whole elevation of talent you're harping on.

And lastly since you can't get a simple point…there is a difference in not having elite talent around a QB where you have a couple of key guys and then depth pieces and having those elite guys and then having most of them injured where you're having to throw to guys down on the depth chart who the QB hasn't had as much time to develop chemistry with. You do understand how that can impact a timing based offense if the QB and receivers haven't had time to get on the same page right?

If you can give me a comparable situation that Brock had where another QB elevated the team around him to something special I'd love to hear it.

2023:

Offense
SF 3rd
KC 15th

Passing yards
SF 4th
KC 6th

Passing TDs
SF 2nd
KC 8th

Points
SF 3rd
KC 15

Sacks allowed
SF 7th
KC 2nd

Defense YPG
SF 8th
KC 2nd

Defense rushing YPG
SF 3rd
KC 18th

Defensive passing YPG
SF 14th
KC 4th

Sacks
SF 9th
KC 2nd

*We had more passing yards, more points and more passing TDs. To me that says we had the better offense and better QB play.

*Defense is a wash. We had a much better run D. They had a much better pass D. YPG and sacks were advantage KC. So their D had probably a slight edge but not by much.

*Oline. Since we had more rushing yards, passing yards and total yards and an only allowed 6 more sacks I'd say our Oline was better.

So ya, don't let stats and common sense confuse you.

And speaking of credibility, it's ok to admit you are wrong even though you lost all credibility yourself.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
2023:

Offense
SF 3rd
KC 15th

Passing yards
SF 4th
KC 6th

Passing TDs
SF 2nd
KC 8th

Points
SF 3rd
KC 15

Sacks allowed
SF 7th
KC 2nd

Defense YPG
SF 8th
KC 2nd

Defense rushing YPG
SF 3rd
KC 18th

Defensive passing YPG
SF 14th
KC 4th

Sacks
SF 9th
KC 2nd

*We had more passing yards, more points and more passing TDs. To me that says we had the better offense and better QB play.

*Defense is a wash. We had a much better run D. They had a much better pass D. YPG and sacks were advantage KC. So their D had probably a slight edge but not by much.

*Oline. Since we had more rushing yards, passing yards and total yards and an only allowed 6 more sacks I'd say our Oline was better.

So ya, don't let stats and common sense confuse you.

You're cherry-picking stats, and stats can be very misleading. A great example is your suggestion that the 49ers had a better run defense than KC (so much better it equalized their better passing D) with your support being a single statistic in yards per game. No single statistic is good enough to gauge the performance of a unit. If you would have just added yards per carry allowed you would see that we were 21st in the league at 4.3 ypc and KC was 24th at 4.4. Not only is that not close to the discrepancy you see in yards per game, but it's a virtual tie.

Why was it that we were so poor in yards per carry allowed but top 5 in yards per game allowed? Probably the single biggest factor was we had big leads in the vast majority of our games… multi score leads at halftime in at least half our wins IIRC… which forced teams into one dimensional 'catch up' offense. We took teams' running game away with our offense.

Our run defense was bad in 2023… especially down the stretch. Our defense overall was significantly overrated by the 'points and yards' stat regurgitating crowd. It was protected by a historically efficient, slow-paced, offense. KC's defense was obviously better. If you look deeper into the available statistics and at least attempt to apply some context this would be clear, though it should have been just by watching both teams' games.

We talking 2023?

per PFF:

San Francisco 49ers: The 49ers tied with the Jets for the highest-graded defense in 2023 (90.8). Their run-defense and pass-rush units placed 10th and fourth, respectively, in PFF grade. The defense also ranked fourth in pass-rush win rate (55.7%).

So yea, are we talking about the season? Or the final game where CMac's fumble and unmatched QB play hurt things for us as well?

We cant take 1 game and rewrite its previous history with it.

Opinions are going to differ on who's was better over the course of a season, but let's not pretend like opinions cant descent.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
2023:

Offense
SF 3rd
KC 15th

Passing yards
SF 4th
KC 6th

Passing TDs
SF 2nd
KC 8th

Points
SF 3rd
KC 15

Sacks allowed
SF 7th
KC 2nd

Defense YPG
SF 8th
KC 2nd

Defense rushing YPG
SF 3rd
KC 18th

Defensive passing YPG
SF 14th
KC 4th

Sacks
SF 9th
KC 2nd

*We had more passing yards, more points and more passing TDs. To me that says we had the better offense and better QB play.

*Defense is a wash. We had a much better run D. They had a much better pass D. YPG and sacks were advantage KC. So their D had probably a slight edge but not by much.

*Oline. Since we had more rushing yards, passing yards and total yards and an only allowed 6 more sacks I'd say our Oline was better.

So ya, don't let stats and common sense confuse you.

And speaking of credibility, it's ok to admit you are wrong even though you lost all credibility yourself.

So you want to be taken seriously when you insinuate there are stats that show Brock Purdy is a better QB than Patrick Mahomes in the same thread where you claim Purdy relies on having top tier players around him?

OL…your reasoning is absolutely hilarious. You're right those things had nothing to do with the skill players you love to bring up in this very thread to diminish Brock.


Not to mention Chiefs had 2 OLmen in that game who have made pro bowls in the last few years. Thuney would've made it 3 if he wasn't injured.

Trent Williams alone doesn't make Banks, Brendel, Feliciano/Burford, McKivitz something they weren't. The overall unit the Chiefs had, especially with the added bonus of not getting called for holding was a hell of a lot better than ours and it showed. No amount of mental gymnastics and cherry picking stats changes that.

As for the defense….lmao

They were 2nd in points allowed and yards allowed and coached by the best DC in the league. We were 3rd and 8th respectively and coached by Wilks who didn't even have a job last year and needed help to get the team playing disciplined football in the playoffs for crying out loud.

We may have had more big name players on our defense but the Chiefs were clearly playing better football and our defense had a much easier matchup in that game. They only had 2 guys to worry about.

And I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Never claimed I'm right all the time but in this case there is no rational dispute. Your response was wrong and it showed why your original take is without merit.

Still would love to see your example of some QB in a similar situation to Brock balling out to your approval.

Originally posted by random49er:
We talking 2023?

per PFF:

San Francisco 49ers: The 49ers tied with the Jets for the highest-graded defense in 2023 (90.8). Their run-defense and pass-rush units placed 10th and fourth, respectively, in PFF grade. The defense also ranked fourth in pass-rush win rate (55.7%).

So yea, are we talking about the season? Or the final game where CMac's fumble and unmatched QB play hurt things for us as well?

We cant take 1 game and rewrite its previous history with it.

Opinions are going to differ on who's was better over the course of a season, but let's not pretend like opinions cant descent.

It's not an opinion. PFF grading doesn't change the simple fact that the Chiefs defense was better in the stats that matter and in the playoffs it was even more evident. The coaching on each side was also miles apart.

since you love PFF so much here is a look at the playoff grades



Or do we want to pretend our defense was playing well compared to KC?

Hell PFF had us with a much higher pass rush grade than KC despite us having 9 less sacks as a team than them.

Cherry picked. Anybody here taking Wilks over Spags? That would be an opinion too right?

Originally posted by genus49:
It's not an opinion. PFF grading doesn't change the simple fact that the Chiefs defense was better in the stats that matter and in the playoffs it was even more evident. The coaching on each side was also miles apart.

since you love PFF so much here is a look at the playoff grades



Or do we want to pretend our defense was playing well compared to KC?

Hell PFF had us with a much higher pass rush grade than KC despite us having 9 less sacks as a team than them.

Cherry picked. Anybody here taking Wilks over Spags? That would be an opinion too right?

Are you intentionally leaving out the point that we were dominating that offense until Greenlaw got hurt?

Originally posted by genus49:
So you want to be taken seriously when you insinuate there are stats that show Brock Purdy is a better QB than Patrick Mahomes in the same thread where you claim Purdy relies on having top tier players around him?

OL…your reasoning is absolutely hilarious. You're right those things had nothing to do with the skill players you love to bring up in this very thread to diminish Brock.


Not to mention Chiefs had 2 OLmen in that game who have made pro bowls in the last few years. Thuney would've made it 3 if he wasn't injured.

Trent Williams alone doesn't make Banks, Brendel, Feliciano/Burford, McKivitz something they weren't. The overall unit the Chiefs had, especially with the added bonus of not getting called for holding was a hell of a lot better than ours and it showed. No amount of mental gymnastics and cherry picking stats changes that.

As for the defense….lmao

They were 2nd in points allowed and yards allowed and coached by the best DC in the league. We were 3rd and 8th respectively and coached by Wilks who didn't even have a job last year and needed help to get the team playing disciplined football in the playoffs for crying out loud.

We may have had more big name players on our defense but the Chiefs were clearly playing better football and our defense had a much easier matchup in that game. They only had 2 guys to worry about.

And I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Never claimed I'm right all the time but in this case there is no rational dispute. Your response was wrong and it showed why your original take is without merit.

Still would love to see your example of some QB in a similar situation to Brock balling out to your approval.

There's tonnes of examples of QBs playing to a high level without an elite supporting cast like Brock had.

Tom Brady was consistently among the leagues top passers with one TE and a bunch of nothings at WR and RB.

Dew Brees set records with a 7th round WR in Michael Thomas.

Justin Herbert had a better year than Purdy with one rookie WR and a bunch of no-bodies. Josh Allen won the MVP with Shakir and a rookie. Mahomes has never had elite receivers. Who's Lamar Jackson's #1 receiver? Prescott has one WR. Who does Jordan Love throw to?

None of those guys had even close to a RB like McCaffery or the groups of playmakers we had at WR and TE like Brock had in 2023

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Are you intentionally leaving out the point that we were dominating that offense until Greenlaw got hurt?

The Chiefs offense was middle of the road that season. They had 2 guys to worry about - Travis Kelce and Rashee Rice.

The Chiefs defense had a completely different challenge ahead of them.

You can also simply look at what each defense going into that game.

Chiefs gave up 7 points to the #2 scoring, #1 yards offense in the league in the WC round
24 points to the #6 scoring, #4 yards in the divisional round on the road
10 points to #4 scoring, #6 yards offense led by the MVP of the league in the AFCCG on the road

49ers gave up 21 points to the #12 scoring, #11 yards offense in the league in the divisional round at home
31 points to the #5 scoring, #3 yardage offense in the league in the NFCCG at home

Anyone looking at those results, the personnel and the coaching and claiming the 49ers had the better defense going into that SB is just wrong.

And bringing up Greenlaw's injury is pointless when your original post claimed how Purdy couldn't win with the most talented team in the league. Did he lose that game with Greenlaw on the field? So any way you slice it that original point was simply hyperbole and wasn't genuine. Because you can't make the claim Purdy had the best team around him when the key things to winning SBs KC was better in and the injuries and officiating certainly didn't help us either.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
There's tonnes of examples of QBs playing to a high level without an elite supporting cast like Brock had.

Tom Brady was consistently among the leagues top passers with one TE and a bunch of nothings at WR and RB.

Dew Brees set records with a 7th round WR in Michael Thomas.

Justin Herbert had a better year than Purdy with one rookie WR and a bunch of no-bodies. Josh Allen won the MVP with Shakir and a rookie. Mahomes has never had elite receivers. Who's Lamar Jackson's #1 receiver? Prescott has one WR. Who does Jordan Love throw to?

None of those guys had even close to a RB like McCaffery or the groups of playmakers we had any WR and TE like Brock had in 2023

Tom Brady is a mega outlier and yet he himself talked about how critical it was for him to have guys he trusted around him and how he flat our refused to throw to guys he didn't trust. As far as that "one TE" you mean Rob Gronkowski???

Apparently Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are now nothings. Tom also had very good pass protection for the most part but also helped them in a big way with his quick release and his ability to read defense.

Btw Tom was in his 11th NFL season when Gronk was a rookie. If you want to Tom playing with weak talent then you should look at the 2006 season, his 7th season in the NFL when he made and likely should've won the AFCCG and likely SB with Reche Caldwell as his top WR. However the Pats had the #2 scoring defense and always great special teams with all that. Tom's numbers that season?

62% 3529 yards 24 TDs 12 INT

as a reminder Brock's numbers were 65.9 3864 yards 20 TD 12 INT(with 5 rushing TDs)

Not exactly miles apart as far as performance from the QB stat wise at least.

As for Drew Brees I assume you mean Colston considering Thomas was an early 2nd rounder. Yes Drew put up huge numbers and a lot of them to guys we don't consider the greatest ever. It doesn't mean he was doing it with nobody. Let's not forget that Drew Brees was playing so poorly for the Chargers they drafted Eli Manning.

His breakout year with the Chargers included 2 HOF skill players in LT and Antonio Gates.

Not to mention once again I have to remind you it's not always about the name of the players but consistency with them. We never got to see Marques Colston away from the Saints like we got to see some of Brady's guys. However how long do we use the draft slot as a knock on a player? Colston played 10 seasons in the NFL all with the Saints. Pretending he wasn't a good player just to claim Brees was playing with nobody is lame.

As for the other guys you keep missing the point. I'm talking about the WHOLE picture of what Brock had to deal with last year. All of those guys had their top guys around. You may not think those guys are comparable to the great players Brock had in 2023...problem is we're talking about 2024. Cuz Brock didn't have them either and had to rely on guys he hasn't had as much time to build chemistry with. In a timing based offense that's very important. As Tom Brady...

ALSO I'm talking about the defense being unable to hold leads, get the ball back, etc. I'm talking about special teams making critical mistakes almost every game hurting us by taking away points or giving us poor field position, etc.

Justin Herbert had the #1 overall defense and a great OL and guess what? CONSISTENCY at his skill positions. Quentin Johnson was as first round pick BTW. Josh Palmer a high 3rd rounder who has been with Justin for 4 years.

Josh Allen? Once again just cuz you don't know who Shakir is doesn't mean he's bad. Note the one game where Shakir was out and Allen was terrible. He also had a great 3 headed RB committe behind him with James Cook leading the league in rushing TDs. Which is pretty important since the Allen averaged just 220 yards passing per game. They were clearly going to run the hell out of the ball. Their defense and OL was a lot better than ours and their special teams wasn't a disaster. Once again the comparison isn't there.

Mahomes never had elite receivers? Just that Tyreek Hill guy and Sammy Watkins a former #4 overall pick. Let's also ignore that Mahomes was having one of his worst statistical seasons when he was missing Rashee Rice and Hollywood Brown...before they traded for Deandre Hopkins and that was with Xavier Worthy on the team already. Oh and the whole 4th scoring defense with special teams that literally won them several games.

Lamar really had it rough with Derrick Henry almost getting 2k on the ground and that Zay Flowers guy who played every game. Rashod Bateman, another first round pick, also coming on. Mark Andrews and Isaiah Likely. Do you watch other teams play?

Jordan Love...guess you missed all the Green Bay fans talking up their depth? Now poor Jordan has nobody?

Just be honest - if they don't have an offensive player of the year apparently they're nobodies to you.

Yet you have failed to provide a single comparable QB doing something special with the SAME circumstances that Brock had this past season.

That's serious injuries to his top players. Inconsistency at the skill positions due to injuries or inferior play - this is even more of an issue for the type of offense we run since it's all about timing.
Spotty OL play/injuries on it so you can't have continuity.
Bad defense.
Terrible special teams.
Poor coaching virtually across the board.

Because that's what actually happened. That's what the argument is when it comes to paying Brock. This crazy idea that he should be successful in that type of situation. And there is a substantial difference between that case and simply not having a Christian McCaffrey like RB or having a George Kittle TE with Aiyuk at WR.

We have seen Brock make a 7th round pick who was an afterthought in the offense into a WR1 type of player but somehow that's not making a player better. Feels like we're picking and choosing when that counts or not.

Manning has won a SB throwing for 141 yds and 1 int. His first SB wasn't better than Brock's either

Brady has won a SB throwing for 262 yds and 1 int. His first sb wasn't better than Brock's either

"Brock couldn't win with the most talented team", well that's either their fault or they weren't as talented as Nick Wright made them out to be. They should have won that game if they were really soooo great

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
Manning has won a SB throwing for 141 yds and 1 int. His first SB wasn't better than Brock's either

Brady has won a SB throwing for 262 yds and 1 int. His first sb wasn't better than Brock's either

"Brock couldn't win with the most talented team", well that's either their fault or they weren't as talented as Nick Wright made them out to be. They should have won that game if they were really soooo great

The thing these guys are missing is the full on disaster this team dealt with last season.

We've seen guys win without elite talent everywhere however the guys they had they trusted and played with them for several years so they could be on the same page consistently. A lot of those teams also had great defenses, special teams and OL play, something we didn't have last season.

It was death by a thousand cuts in a way as far as regression across the board, coaching issues and injuries. Purdy wasn't perfect but he was in man ways basically cut off at the knees considering we run a heavy anticipation based timing offense. If you can't have consistent guys who you're familiar with out there it will impact performance.

And still some people talk like we were awful on offense. We were 4th in yards and 13th in scoring. Improve the defense and special teams and this is a playoff team easily.

Originally posted by genus49:

The thing these guys are missing is the full on disaster this team dealt with last season.

We've seen guys win without elite talent everywhere however the guys they had they trusted and played with them for several years so they could be on the same page consistently. A lot of those teams also had great defenses, special teams and OL play, something we didn't have last season.

It was death by a thousand cuts in a way as far as regression across the board, coaching issues and injuries. Purdy wasn't perfect but he was in man ways basically cut off at the knees considering we run a heavy anticipation based timing offense. If you can't have consistent guys who you're familiar with out there it will impact performance.

And still some people talk like we were awful on offense. We were 4th in yards and 13th in scoring. Improve the defense and special teams and this is a playoff team easily.

Yea it's like "look what happened without avengers" but they disregard who's actually out there. The line is already a problem with Trent, so what do you think will happen without him? We had Ronnie Bell out there, a guy that didn't even make it through the year. We had a rookie that was learning on the fly after missing the whole offseason. Our best players were Brock and Kittle, but that's not enough with what they were surrounded by. Just like Bosa and Warner weren't enough to make up for our awful defense. The depth behind the already overrated avengers sucks, and it's because of all the draft misses

Originally posted by genus49:
The Chiefs offense was middle of the road that season. They had 2 guys to worry about - Travis Kelce and Rashee Rice.

The Chiefs defense had a completely different challenge ahead of them.

You can also simply look at what each defense going into that game.

Chiefs gave up 7 points to the #2 scoring, #1 yards offense in the league in the WC round
24 points to the #6 scoring, #4 yards in the divisional round on the road
10 points to #4 scoring, #6 yards offense led by the MVP of the league in the AFCCG on the road

49ers gave up 21 points to the #12 scoring, #11 yards offense in the league in the divisional round at home
31 points to the #5 scoring, #3 yardage offense in the league in the NFCCG at home

Anyone looking at those results, the personnel and the coaching and claiming the 49ers had the better defense going into that SB is just wrong.

And bringing up Greenlaw's injury is pointless when your original post claimed how Purdy couldn't win with the most talented team in the league. Did he lose that game with Greenlaw on the field? So any way you slice it that original point was simply hyperbole and wasn't genuine. Because you can't make the claim Purdy had the best team around him when the key things to winning SBs KC was better in and the injuries and officiating certainly didn't help us either.

You're just moving the goal posts to support your argument.

Anyone who says that we didn't have a better team than the Chiefs is flat out wrong. And delirious.