QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by random49er:
Give up leverage in negotiations because of belief that he is better, and should be paid more than them, irrespective of where they are with their cap and the rest of their team's contracts?

Alot more goes into this than "pay him because some other guys are making more."

e.g. We keep seeing Dak,...but Dak had a "no-tag" clause that prevented him from being tagged a 3rd time by the Cowboys if his contract had expired this offseason. They were pressed because they could not tag him. We are not.

They are going to want to meet in the middle,....not browse around at what other teams are messing up with, then decide the 49ers' fate.

This has literally been my point for months now while you've been talking franchise tag and mistakes other teams made and now you're turning around and saying the same thing?

You've made a helluva lot more points than that, though. Let's be honest. A Dak-style contract because Purdy is perhaps the better player is out of the cards, IMO.

Originally posted by genus49:
Crazy thought but…maybe cuz the team believes Brock is a better QB than those guys?

As I said in the past and above pushing the contract stuff to next year doesn't make a lot of sense. The only upside is if he sucks and you didn't end up paying him.

The downside is you're paying him more and you possibly impacted how good he could be this year cuz he may avoid some team workouts he'd participate in with the contract completed.

You keep claiming other teams made mistakes in their deals, they may not agree with your take.

Or a crazier thought is that we have seen the best Brock can be which is pretty damn good…….

With a Pro Bowl roster full of the highest paid players at their positions.

And then they have seen what happens when the situation around him isn't perfect and full of Pro Bowlers like it was last year and it's that he is an awfully league average QB that can't elevate his team.

Why isn't he signed yet?

Next week id make my final offer (under 50 mill per year) to Brock. If he rejects it I'm trying to send him to the Steelers for Watt and a pick swap of sorts. Enough is enough with this non elite qb trying to be a top paid player. He is very very good. Not elite.

Originally posted by justjim77:
Next week id make my final offer (under 50 mill per year) to Brock. If he rejects it I'm trying to send him to the Steelers for Watt and a pick swap of sorts. Enough is enough with this non elite qb trying to be a top paid player. He is very very good. Not elite.

lol please don't quit your day job.

Originally posted by random49er:
You've made a helluva lot more points than that, though. Let's be honest. A Dak-style contract because Purdy is perhaps the better player is out of the cards, IMO.

I sure have and none of those points has been "I expect Brock to get a deal like Dak"

So yes we agree it will not be a Dak-style contract.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Or a crazier thought is that we have seen the best Brock can be which is pretty damn good…….

With a Pro Bowl roster full of the highest paid players at their positions.

And then they have seen what happens when the situation around him isn't perfect and full of Pro Bowlers like it was last year and it's that he is an awfully league average QB that can't elevate his team.

Why isn't he signed yet?

When has this team done contracts this early in the offseason without the ability to lay down some ground work prior to the season ending just a couple of months ago?

As far as the rest of your post, you still refuse to understand the difference in a QB playing without elite skill players around him and a QB playing with WR3-6 or RB3-5 most of the season with a defense and special teams which are playing poorly.

If the 49ers are only going to pay a QB when he can carry bottom of the roster players who he hasn't had a lot of time to practice with when he can't have support from the defense or special teams then may as well just start from scratch cuz we're not winning anything with that blueprint.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by genus49:
Crazy thought but…maybe cuz the team believes Brock is a better QB than those guys?

As I said in the past and above pushing the contract stuff to next year doesn't make a lot of sense. The only upside is if he sucks and you didn't end up paying him.

The downside is you're paying him more and you possibly impacted how good he could be this year cuz he may avoid some team workouts he'd participate in with the contract completed.

You keep claiming other teams made mistakes in their deals, they may not agree with your take.

Give up leverage in negotiations because of belief that he is better, and should be paid more than them, irrespective of where they are with their cap and the rest of their team's contracts?

Please stop arguing against strawmen and try addressing the actual arguments presented.

You can pay a franchise QB a franchise QB contract and be cap-aware. I brought this up to you when we talked about Hurts' contract. The Eagles were tight on cap space in the short-term when Hurts was extended. How did they work around it? The signing bonus was small. Option bonuses in every year, being back-loaded in the last three years to make up for that low signing bonus. Something that wasn't brought up was 85M of his cash was insured at signing. In the event that the insurance policy pays out to the Eagles (or refunded from Hurts), the Eagles get back cap space the following league year.

Originally posted by random49er:
e.g. We keep seeing Dak,...but Dak had a "no-tag" clause that prevented him from being tagged a 3rd time by the Cowboys if his contract had expired this offseason. They were pressed because they could not tag him. We are not.

Pop Quiz! How did Dak get that "no-tag" clause? How did Dak get to a third tag?

Originally posted by random49er:
They are going to want to meet in the middle,....not browse around at what other teams are messing up with, then decide the 49ers' fate.

No. They aren't trying to "meet in the middle". The team is trying to minimize the amount of money they have to spend on the quarterback position. The player is trying to maximize their value. Most of the time, the deal will end up in that range. Teams do use other market contracts to determine what their offer should be. Analytics requires market data...

Originally posted by justjim77:
Next week id make my final offer (under 50 mill per year) to Brock. If he rejects it I'm trying to send him to the Steelers for Watt and a pick swap of sorts. Enough is enough with this non elite qb trying to be a top paid player. He is very very good. Not elite.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Or a crazier thought is that we have seen the best Brock can be which is pretty damn good…….

With a Pro Bowl roster full of the highest paid players at their positions.

And then they have seen what happens when the situation around him isn't perfect and full of Pro Bowlers like it was last year and it's that he is an awfully league average QB that can't elevate his team.

Why isn't he signed yet?

When has this team done contracts this early in the offseason without the ability to lay down some ground work prior to the season ending just a couple of months ago?

Looked up the contract data. The 2011 and 2020 CBA both have the same extension eligible dates for rookies. Drafted rookies after the final game of their third contract year. Undrafted rookies after the final game of the second contract year.

As we already knew, they haven't gotten extensions done this early in a few years. Among all quarterbacks since 2011, only Sanchize at this point.

All Players, 49ers, Extension-Eligible Year Extension, 2011-2024 (* = fifth-year option exercised, + = player rookie contract acquired via trade/waivers)

1. Quinton Dial - 2/24/2016
2. Daniel Kilgore - 2/27/2014
3. Ian Williams - 3/11/2013
4. Bruce Miller - 3/20/2014
5. Jaquiski Tartt - 4/27/2018
6. Colin Kaepernick - 6/4/2014
7. Laken Tomlinson+ - 6/22/2018
8. Deebo Samuel - 7/31/2022
9. George Kittle - 8/13/2022
10. Tank Carradine - 9/6/2016
11. Mitch Wishnowsky - 9/17/2022
12. Dre Greenlaw - 9/18/2022
13. Deommodore Lenoir - 11/12/2024
14. Vance McDonald - 12/10/2016
15. Kendall Hunter - 11/5/2014

Quarterbacks, All Teams, Extension-Eligible Year Extension, 2011-2024 (* = fifth-year option exercised)

1. Sanchize* - 3/9/2012
2. Hurts - 4/17/2023
3. Love - 5/2/2023
4. Tannehill* - 5/18/2015
5. Kaepernick - 6/4/2014
6. Wentz* - 6/6/2019
7. The Prince* - 6/13/2024
8. Carr - 6/22/2017
9. Mahomes* - 7/6/2020
10. Wilson - 7/31/2015
11. Murray* - 7/21/2022
12. Herbert* - 7/25/2023
13. Allen* - 8/6/2021
14. Brissett - 9/2/2019
15. Goff* - 9/3/2019
16. Watson* - 9/5/2020
17. Burrow* - 9/7/2023

Originally posted by Typecast:
No. They aren't trying to "meet in the middle". The team is trying to minimize the amount of money they have to spend on the quarterback position.

I didn't say they are trying to. Changing the words I use changes everything.

"They are going to" implies the future...eventually. They are trying to implies right now,...which is not what I was saying.

But I'll still play,...Yes. Glad you're finally in tune with this,...as you have suggested they rush to give out a big contract because Brock being happy a few weeks earlier with no reason to sulk while reporting to camp is worth upwards of $50M+ in itself. Right? We are finally bringing you down to Earth.

Originally posted by Typecast:
The player is trying to maximize their value. Most of the time, the deal will end up in that range.

Yes....the player is trying to maximize their value. You, personally, happen to side with the player getting things more slanted his way instead of what they'll both eventually want to do...which is meet in the middle (wherever that is). I'm siding more with how well the team can do on this deal, given the limited playing data we currently have on Brock playing at a high level, given his unique situation.

Hell,...he could request a trade,...get it...and still end up getting franchise tagged by the new team. Virtually all the leverage is with us, given the CBA.

Originally posted by Typecast:
Teams do use other market contracts to determine what their offer should be. Analytics requires market data...

Play with your analytics market data all you want, but playing data > market data in this case. This aint a loaf of bread where we're seeing who picks it up at a given price 1st.

This is going to come down to how much they BELIEVE he is worth for an extension. The more cap space they give away, the more they'd better be right if they want to keep their jobs.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Or a crazier thought is that we have seen the best Brock can be which is pretty damn good…….

With a Pro Bowl roster full of the highest paid players at their positions.

And then they have seen what happens when the situation around him isn't perfect and full of Pro Bowlers like it was last year and it's that he is an awfully league average QB that can't elevate his team.

Why isn't he signed yet?

When has this team done contracts this early in the offseason without the ability to lay down some ground work prior to the season ending just a couple of months ago?

As far as the rest of your post, you still refuse to understand the difference in a QB playing without elite skill players around him and a QB playing with WR3-6 or RB3-5 most of the season with a defense and special teams which are playing poorly.

If the 49ers are only going to pay a QB when he can carry bottom of the roster players who he hasn't had a lot of time to practice with when he can't have support from the defense or special teams then may as well just start from scratch cuz we're not winning anything with that blueprint.

And you keep saying I don't understand the bolded when you say it 500 times.

Then I reply with if we pay Purdy 50 million dollars we won't have the money to have that elite group of playmakers and this regime has not shown they can build through the draft aside from a few later round picks we hit on.

Of course a QB needs help. I never once said they didn't but you have never understood that we have two years of full time data with Purdy. One year he was an MVP candidate WITH a Pro Bowl roster. The next year he was league average and we won 6 games with a less than ideal team around him.

Im a firm believer that an average QB can be elevated by elite playmakers and that there are very few QB who should be paid that top dollar because they can't elevate their team.

Brock is a good QB but I think he is the latter when it comes to that statement.

I'm pretty sure Shanahan can make it to the playoffs with Mac Jones at QB as long as he has that elite group of playmakers that he can scheme open.

How are all those teams who paid their average QBs doing? Miami, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Green Bay, Dallas, Arizona etc

Hell, Minnesota just let Darnold walk who was fantastic for them WITH A GROUP OF ELITE PLAYMAKERS and will turn the team over to basically a rookie QB. I can guarantee they won't have much of a drop in offensive production.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Typecast:
No. They aren't trying to "meet in the middle". The team is trying to minimize the amount of money they have to spend on the quarterback position.

I didn't say they are trying to. Changing the words I use changes everything.

"They are going to" implies the future...eventually. They are trying to implies right now,...which is not what I was saying.

But I'll still play,...Yes. Glad you're finally in tune with this,...as you have suggested they rush to give out a big contract because Brock being happy a few weeks earlier with no reason to sulk while reporting to camp is worth upwards of $50M+ in itself. Right? We are finally bringing you down to Earth.

Have you learned nothing. There is no "meeting in the middle". It's the player getting what they want.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Typecast:
The player is trying to maximize their value. Most of the time, the deal will end up in that range.

Yes....the player is trying to maximize their value. You, personally, happen to side with the player getting things more slanted his way instead of what they'll both eventually want to do...which is meet in the middle (wherever that is). I'm siding more with how well the team can do on this deal, given the limited playing data we currently have on Brock playing at a high level, given his unique situation.

Hell,...he could request a trade,...get it...and still end up getting franchise tagged by the new team. Virtually all the leverage is with us, given the CBA.

Nobody is going to trade for Purdy without an extension already worked out or prioritized to be done before the season starts. Nobody is trading for him just to franchise tag him next year and eat a 45M cap hit.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Typecast:
Teams do use other market contracts to determine what their offer should be. Analytics requires market data...

Play with your analytics market data all you want, but playing data > market data in this case. This aint a loaf of bread where we're seeing who picks it up at a given price 1st.

This is going to come down to how much they BELIEVE he is worth for an extension. The more cap space they give away, the more they'd better be right if they want to keep their jobs.

It's not my analytics. It's Paraag's. Market data absolutely matters. You harping on "playing data" has nothing to do with our conversation besides moving the goalpost. But if you want to make that argument, the "playing data" (which encompases more than just raw stats) in conjunction with the "market data" would most likely show he's worth a top contract.

The cap hits can be manipulated on a market-resetting contract. We've discussed this before.

If it wasn't for the team lucking into Purdy and Purdy making the most of his opportunities, Kyle and Lynch might not even have jobs at this point. More importantly, the decision to pay Purdy is squarely on Paraag at this point. Paraag doesn't have to worry about his job security if he hands Purdy a market-resetting contract and it doesn't work out for whatever reason. Paraag is a made man to the Yorks. He's made them so much cash through their various business ventures beyond the 49ers.

Originally posted by Typecast:
Have you learned nothing. There is no "meeting in the middle". It's the player getting what they want.

The CBA doesn't allow the players to get what they want, though. That's kinda what it's there for. Sports like MLB baseball and yea, you are getting closer to that territory.

Given all the leverage the CBA gives the 49ers (under contract for $5M per his slotting, 2 franchise tag yrs available afterwards), if you truly think he's just going to get whatever he wants, then I just don't know what else to say to you at this point, lol. But that's certainly not what's going on with contracts.

Heck....even the league MVP had to settle for $5M/Yr less than the previous record setter, Dak Prescott ($55M/Yr vs. $60M/Yr). Your top 10 pick solidifying the pick with an MVP Year is going to get as close to "getting what he wants" as possible. Still didn't happen.

You're more likely getting wide-eyed at the max value of them and not comprehending how they can drastically differ from what the player actually initially wanted. Just my guess.

But your perception of just what the "middle" is is just that,....your perception. You'd probably add both parties starting numbers together then divide by 2 and think that's the "middle." I can't hold a class on this forum on bargaining and leverage, but that term is alot more intricate than that.

Originally posted by justjim77:
Next week id make my final offer (under 50 mill per year) to Brock. If he rejects it I'm trying to send him to the Steelers for Watt and a pick swap of sorts. Enough is enough with this non elite qb trying to be a top paid player. He is very very good. Not elite.

Ahhhh I see we've entered the "take it or leave it" stage of fandom because some have reached the "too impatient for reason" realm.

Good times.