Will our offense be different with Lance?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

You missed the point. The QB was the difference in the game. Both run games were shut down and the game came down to who can make more plays through the air. Shanahan schemed plays open and Jimmy missed them. Stafford made the plays necessary and proved to be the better QB when it mattered most.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

Goff's last year they had 548 passing attempts vs 545 fir the niners last year.. 2019 was like 519 vs 562. 18 was like 533 and 17 was around 560. They didn't get into 600+ passing attempts until stafford arrived

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

You missed the point. The QB was the difference in the game. Both run games were shut down and the game came down to who can make more plays through the air. Shanahan schemed plays open and Jimmy missed them. Stafford made the plays necessary and proved to be the better QB when it mattered most.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

And what? You are talking like they are a consistent 600+ attempt pass team which is false. They barely averaged more passing attempts than the niners pre stafford

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

And what? You are talking like they are a consistent 600+ attempt pass team which is false. They barely averaged more passing attempts than the niners pre stafford

I'll quote myself again for you:

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though.

If you need further evidence, compare the personnel grouping in those years.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

And what? You are talking like they are a consistent 600+ attempt pass team which is false. They barely averaged more passing attempts than the niners pre stafford

I'll quote myself again for you:

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though.

If you need further evidence, compare the personnel grouping in those years.

So you don't think there is a philosophical change when you go 560, 533, 562, 548 then to 625 with a new QB? Lol ok

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

And what? You are talking like they are a consistent 600+ attempt pass team which is false. They barely averaged more passing attempts than the niners pre stafford

I'll quote myself again for you:

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though.

If you need further evidence, compare the personnel grouping in those years.

So you don't think there is a philosophical change when you go 560, 533, 562, 548 then to 625 with a new QB? Lol ok

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

And what? You are talking like they are a consistent 600+ attempt pass team which is false. They barely averaged more passing attempts than the niners pre stafford

I'll quote myself again for you:

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though.

If you need further evidence, compare the personnel grouping in those years.

So you don't think there is a philosophical change when you go 560, 533, 562, 548 then to 625 with a new QB? Lol ok

Did their offense, style and philosophy change or did one QB find more success in it?

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? They're still a pass centric team. That'll never change. Even with Goff and even at one point, they tried to be 'slightly' more balanced, partially d/t their key injury at WR.

And what? You are talking like they are a consistent 600+ attempt pass team which is false. They barely averaged more passing attempts than the niners pre stafford

I'll quote myself again for you:

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though.

If you need further evidence, compare the personnel grouping in those years.

So you don't think there is a philosophical change when you go 560, 533, 562, 548 then to 625 with a new QB? Lol ok

No philosophy change. They just passed more because they were better at passing the football due to the new QB being better at passing than the previous QB.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
No philosophy change. They just passed more because they were better at passing the football due to the new QB being better at passing than the previous QB.