Will our offense be different with Lance?

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

lol after I posted that I realized I don't know where I'm going with it. If one team prefers all the short passing plays while the other prefers to dial up longer developing pass plays, then it's not the same offense.

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:
Are we going to run 40 times a game? At times.

Are we going to get the ball out quick and let our play makers make plays? Yes a lot.

That part is going to be the base of our offense regardless. There's no reason to go away from it. The difference will be a little more verticality on routes and maybe an occasional extra deep shot. The basis of the the offense will not change though.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:
Are we going to run 40 times a game? At times.

Are we going to get the ball out quick and let our play makers make plays? Yes a lot.

That part is going to be the base of our offense regardless. There's no reason to go away from it. The difference will be a little more verticality on routes and maybe an occasional extra deep shot. The basis of the the offense will not change though.

If they call different types of run plays, even if the number of runs is the same from the previous season, is it the same rushing offense? I would not consider it the same.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

You missed the point. The QB was the difference in the game. Both run games were shut down and the game came down to who can make more plays through the air. Shanahan schemed plays open and Jimmy missed them. Stafford made the plays necessary and proved to be the better QB when it mattered most.

YACBro, that article linked above, which you posted an excerpt from, was written before the NFC Champ game. That article came out on Jan 26, the NFCCG was on Jan 30. Maybe you were already aware of that.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

lol after I posted that I realized I don't know where I'm going with it. If one team prefers all the short passing plays while the other prefers to dial up longer developing pass plays, then it's not the same offense.

You made sense, I'm just too stupid to be able to answer it lol .

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

lol after I posted that I realized I don't know where I'm going with it. If one team prefers all the short passing plays while the other prefers to dial up longer developing pass plays, then it's not the same offense.

You made sense, I'm just too stupid to be able to answer it lol .

Hoov would agree with you if you jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

On a serious note, I 'think' you meant, if Kyle and McVay both run the same systems but one chooses to run more or pass more out of it, is it "really" a different offense?

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:
A shift has occurred in the NFL landscape when it comes to defenses moving from being predominantly single high to two high safety shells. The era of the Seattle Cover3 has passed and now it's time for Cover2/4 to make a comeback. When the Seattle Cover3 was a thing, Kyle's outside zone scheme started to spread because it was a great counter to those single high coverages.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2022/1/26/22902126/kyle-shanahan-sean-mcvay-five-years-evolution
2017-2018: The Golden Age of Wide Zone Offenses. At the core of their offenses is the wide zone running play. The value of this type of run was magnified when Mike Shanahan paired it with the West Coast passing game that lives on slants and crossers. These routes broke into the area vacated by the linebackers who were flowing too aggressively with the wide zone run. The play-action passing game behind this offense feels unstoppable.

This is when Kyle's scheme spread as mentioned earlier in this thread. Defenses had to adapt and so many schemes are pulling a safety back. Some defenses cheat to gain a defender in coverage by using 1.5 gap techniques. Now, we see more Quarters (Cover4) and Cover2 - split safety coverages.

Pattern matching has existed for long time 1980. With RPOs and spread formations becoming common, defenses need to adapt coverage wise which is why there could be more of an emphasis on match zone schemes. Vic Fangio was big on that when Harbaugh was here. Fangio has been contacted by the 49ers this offseason to serve as a consultant.

Back to the 49ers offense. If split coverages are going to continue to rise (specifically Quarters), this means safeties are going to be asked to match up against WRs in man coverage since many Quarters calls require a safety to match a WR, and often times it's the #2 WR (slot). Slot WRs often get a free release when a defense is in Quarters and even if the overhang defender collides with the #2, the safety that picks up the #2 will have to turn and run with the WR - I believe this is why Kyle wanted speed in the slot, something Juan Jennings does not provide. Ray Ray McCloud was signed as a free agent, but he's more quick than fast. When the 49ers got the chance to add speed they went for the speed demon with Danny Gray.

So on top of the running game differences that we can see coming with how the 49ers drafted bigger RBs to run between the tackles, speed in the slot is another change we could see coming - to combat the defensive changes in the league.

"And if Shanahan loses, it will serve to only reassert that which we all—McVay, Shanahan, and the football-watching public—know. That X's and O's can do only so much—it's the Jimmies and Joes that truly matter. This magical offense, even when masterminded by Shanahan himself, can elevate quarterbacks only so far. The talent of Stafford will win out over the talent of Garoppolo. And while McVay may have lost the battle of the chalkboard wizards, he won the war when he got the quarterback who was good enough to break the shackles of the offense—and now the pressure is on Shanahan to make sure Lance is that quarterback, as well."

Wow! What an accurate prediction.

Two totally different offenses, styles and philosophy though. Comparing apples to oranges. One had 607 passing attempts and the other, near dead last in attempts. And that philosophy in LA didn't change from QB to QB. Stafford was just a better QB than Goff who we're finding out, is pretty poor, to say the least. The flp would be like comparing our running game to theirs. Apples to oranges.

You missed the point. The QB was the difference in the game. Both run games were shut down and the game came down to who can make more plays through the air. Shanahan schemed plays open and Jimmy missed them. Stafford made the plays necessary and proved to be the better QB when it mattered most.

YACBro, that article linked above, which you posted an excerpt from, was written before the NFC Champ game. That article came out on Jan 26, the NFCCG was on Jan 30. Maybe you were already aware of that.

Yes. I was aware of it. That is why I stated in my op, "Wow! What an accurate prediction." Than Ncommand brought up something unrelated to what I pointing out. So I responded with what actually took place in the NFCCG and how it related to the point I was originally attempting to make. It played out like the writer of that pre NFCCG article wrote would happen. The better talent at QB was enough to overcome Shanahan's superior x's and o's chalkboard wizardry.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

lol after I posted that I realized I don't know where I'm going with it. If one team prefers all the short passing plays while the other prefers to dial up longer developing pass plays, then it's not the same offense.

You made sense, I'm just too stupid to be able to answer it lol .

Hoov would agree with you if you jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

On a serious note, I 'think' you meant, if Kyle and McVay both run the same systems but one chooses to run more or pass more out of it, is it "really" a different offense?

Yup, because he knows what he's talking about

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

lol after I posted that I realized I don't know where I'm going with it. If one team prefers all the short passing plays while the other prefers to dial up longer developing pass plays, then it's not the same offense.

You made sense, I'm just too stupid to be able to answer it lol .

Hoov would agree with you if you jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

On a serious note, I 'think' you meant, if Kyle and McVay both run the same systems but one chooses to run more or pass more out of it, is it "really" a different offense?

Yup, because he knows what he's talking about

Please don't jump.

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

Maybe.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:
For you guys talking about passing attempts versus run attempts, I have a hypothetical question - if two teams have the same identical playbook, but one team calls many more run plays from it while the other team calls many more passing plays, is it the same offense?

Maybe.

same same BUT different !!!