Will our offense be different with Lance?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by pdc20:
The answer is no. The offense will just have more shots downfield and scrambles from the QB position.
Kyle should change nothing about his offense.

Sounds different to me. There will be shift in the way Kyle does some things and it could be independent of the change at QB. Some changes will be due to how the league's defenses are changing. Then consider the new QB, change in skillset and experience, and there will be differences like what you mentioned above.

Yup. This season will be essentially finding out what Treys strengths and weaknesses are and Shanny will adjust and develop a system based on that over the next few years (as any coach should) while keeping the core fundamentals and design of the "Shanahan offense" in place.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think it will and it should change a little. I bet some of the plays called were timing plays that takes years of experience to get down and Kyle was able to call them based on Jimmy's quick release and experience with the WRs. Trey won't be there just yet. Should also see more plays where the primary target is a deep route or a play that can take a bit longer to develop.

I just pray they don't call as many designed QBs runs like they did in Trey's first couple games.

A coach that refuses to evolve gets left in the dust. Imo, I believe those designed runs were mainly to get certain looks on tape. I don't think we'll ever see a heavy dose of designed runs again like in the AZ game. Like Greg Cosell said when talking about Allen. The Bills save a majority of his designed runs for big games. I think Shanahan will do the same with Trey.

I think the designed runs will have a lot to do with game situation and I don't think Kyle will be shy about using Lance as a runner. It will look a lot like how Cam Newton was used. While it might make us feel uncomfortable, Lance is a big boy and as long as he picks his spots on when (and against who) to lower the shoulder, I think he'll be fine.

It's a numbers game and the 49ers spread it wide in a goal line situation. If we count the overhang defender as the 6th box defender, then we should count Aiyuk as a blocker too since the play is going towards Aiyuk. This is QB Power left (Kittle and Brunskill will pull).


The playside B gap is there for the taking, between Trent and Tomlinson.


The blocking is poorly executed between Brunskill, Kittle, and Aiyuk, but we can see the advantage this formation gives Lance in the run game. (holding call on Aiyuk negates the play). When executed correctly, these goaline runs will be like taking candy from a baby.

Originally posted by thl408:
I think the designed runs will have a lot to do with game situation and I don't think Kyle will be shy about using Lance as a runner. It will look a lot like how Cam Newton was used. While it might make us feel uncomfortable, Lance is a big boy and as long as he picks his spots on when (and against who) to lower the shoulder, I think he'll be fine.

It's a numbers game and the 49ers spread it wide in a goal line situation. If we count the overhang defender as the 6th box defender, then we should count Aiyuk as a blocker too since the play is going towards Aiyuk. This is QB Power left (Kittle and Brunskill will pull).


The playside B gap is there for the taking, between Trent and Tomlinson.


The blocking is poorly executed between Brunskill, Kittle, and Aiyuk, but we can see the advantage this formation gives Lance in the run game. (holding call on Aiyuk negates the play). When executed correctly, these goaline runs will be like taking candy from a baby.

Agree 💯
oh and

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think it will and it should change a little. I bet some of the plays called were timing plays that takes years of experience to get down and Kyle was able to call them based on Jimmy's quick release and experience with the WRs. Trey won't be there just yet. Should also see more plays where the primary target is a deep route or a play that can take a bit longer to develop.

I just pray they don't call as many designed QBs runs like they did in Trey's first couple games.

A coach that refuses to evolve gets left in the dust. Imo, I believe those designed runs were mainly to get certain looks on tape. I don't think we'll ever see a heavy dose of designed runs again like in the AZ game. Like Greg Cosell said when talking about Allen. The Bills save a majority of his designed runs for big games. I think Shanahan will do the same with Trey.

I think the designed runs will have a lot to do with game situation and I don't think Kyle will be shy about using Lance as a runner. It will look a lot like how Cam Newton was used. While it might make us feel uncomfortable, Lance is a big boy and as long as he picks his spots on when (and against who) to lower the shoulder, I think he'll be fine.

It's a numbers game and the 49ers spread it wide in a goal line situation. If we count the overhang defender as the 6th box defender, then we should count Aiyuk as a blocker too since the play is going towards Aiyuk. This is QB Power left (Kittle and Brunskill will pull).


The playside B gap is there for the taking, between Trent and Tomlinson.


The blocking is poorly executed between Brunskill, Kittle, and Aiyuk, but we can see the advantage this formation gives Lance in the run game. (holding call on Aiyuk negates the play). When executed correctly, these goaline runs will be like taking candy from a baby.

I agree. Goal line and short yardage situations will definitely be part of his game. I just don't expect 6+ designed runs per game. Just the threat of it will be enough to win the numbers game.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think it will and it should change a little. I bet some of the plays called were timing plays that takes years of experience to get down and Kyle was able to call them based on Jimmy's quick release and experience with the WRs. Trey won't be there just yet. Should also see more plays where the primary target is a deep route or a play that can take a bit longer to develop.

I just pray they don't call as many designed QBs runs like they did in Trey's first couple games.

A coach that refuses to evolve gets left in the dust. Imo, I believe those designed runs were mainly to get certain looks on tape. I don't think we'll ever see a heavy dose of designed runs again like in the AZ game. Like Greg Cosell said when talking about Allen. The Bills save a majority of his designed runs for big games. I think Shanahan will do the same with Trey.

I think the designed runs will have a lot to do with game situation and I don't think Kyle will be shy about using Lance as a runner. It will look a lot like how Cam Newton was used. While it might make us feel uncomfortable, Lance is a big boy and as long as he picks his spots on when (and against who) to lower the shoulder, I think he'll be fine.

It's a numbers game and the 49ers spread it wide in a goal line situation. If we count the overhang defender as the 6th box defender, then we should count Aiyuk as a blocker too since the play is going towards Aiyuk. This is QB Power left (Kittle and Brunskill will pull).


The playside B gap is there for the taking, between Trent and Tomlinson.


The blocking is poorly executed between Brunskill, Kittle, and Aiyuk, but we can see the advantage this formation gives Lance in the run game. (holding call on Aiyuk negates the play). When executed correctly, these goaline runs will be like taking candy from a baby.

I agree. Goal line and short yardage situations will definitely be part of his game. I just don't expect 6+ designed runs per game. Just the threat of it will be enough to win the numbers game.

i rather have Poe line up in the wild cat at the GL

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think it will and it should change a little. I bet some of the plays called were timing plays that takes years of experience to get down and Kyle was able to call them based on Jimmy's quick release and experience with the WRs. Trey won't be there just yet. Should also see more plays where the primary target is a deep route or a play that can take a bit longer to develop.

I just pray they don't call as many designed QBs runs like they did in Trey's first couple games.

A coach that refuses to evolve gets left in the dust. Imo, I believe those designed runs were mainly to get certain looks on tape. I don't think we'll ever see a heavy dose of designed runs again like in the AZ game. Like Greg Cosell said when talking about Allen. The Bills save a majority of his designed runs for big games. I think Shanahan will do the same with Trey.

I think the designed runs will have a lot to do with game situation and I don't think Kyle will be shy about using Lance as a runner. It will look a lot like how Cam Newton was used. While it might make us feel uncomfortable, Lance is a big boy and as long as he picks his spots on when (and against who) to lower the shoulder, I think he'll be fine.

It's a numbers game and the 49ers spread it wide in a goal line situation. If we count the overhang defender as the 6th box defender, then we should count Aiyuk as a blocker too since the play is going towards Aiyuk. This is QB Power left (Kittle and Brunskill will pull).


The playside B gap is there for the taking, between Trent and Tomlinson.


The blocking is poorly executed between Brunskill, Kittle, and Aiyuk, but we can see the advantage this formation gives Lance in the run game. (holding call on Aiyuk negates the play). When executed correctly, these goaline runs will be like taking candy from a baby.

I agree. Goal line and short yardage situations will definitely be part of his game. I just don't expect 6+ designed runs per game. Just the threat of it will be enough to win the numbers game.

i rather have Poe line up in the wild cat at the GL

Chiefs in this situation would shovel to Kelce and keep their QB clean. Let's be more like the Chiefs. Good play I like this.

Since Trey can throw the ball further than 5 yards pass the line of scrimmage and can throw an out route. I would say yes.

We will still pound the rock though.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think it will and it should change a little. I bet some of the plays called were timing plays that takes years of experience to get down and Kyle was able to call them based on Jimmy's quick release and experience with the WRs. Trey won't be there just yet. Should also see more plays where the primary target is a deep route or a play that can take a bit longer to develop.

I just pray they don't call as many designed QBs runs like they did in Trey's first couple games.

A coach that refuses to evolve gets left in the dust. Imo, I believe those designed runs were mainly to get certain looks on tape. I don't think we'll ever see a heavy dose of designed runs again like in the AZ game. Like Greg Cosell said when talking about Allen. The Bills save a majority of his designed runs for big games. I think Shanahan will do the same with Trey.

I think the designed runs will have a lot to do with game situation and I don't think Kyle will be shy about using Lance as a runner. It will look a lot like how Cam Newton was used. While it might make us feel uncomfortable, Lance is a big boy and as long as he picks his spots on when (and against who) to lower the shoulder, I think he'll be fine.

It's a numbers game and the 49ers spread it wide in a goal line situation. If we count the overhang defender as the 6th box defender, then we should count Aiyuk as a blocker too since the play is going towards Aiyuk. This is QB Power left (Kittle and Brunskill will pull).


The playside B gap is there for the taking, between Trent and Tomlinson.


The blocking is poorly executed between Brunskill, Kittle, and Aiyuk, but we can see the advantage this formation gives Lance in the run game. (holding call on Aiyuk negates the play). When executed correctly, these goaline runs will be like taking candy from a baby.

I agree. Goal line and short yardage situations will definitely be part of his game. I just don't expect 6+ designed runs per game. Just the threat of it will be enough to win the numbers game.

i rather have Poe line up in the wild cat at the GL

Why not. NC says Kyle is designing a position less offense. We've already seen Trent Williams play tight end pass receiver. I think Poe can be a very good lineman, and also has the potential to be another Guy Macintyre type of player - who was the original *Refrigerator* (played fullback) as well as guard. I can see Poe playing all over the offense, as fullback, center, and Tight End.

I'd love to have Poe also play long snapper. Taybor Pepper's can't play on the offensive line in a pinch, if we have injuries on the offensive line or tight end. I also don't think Taybor is a particularly good tight end. I'd love to see Poe make it to long snapper and make that position productive (in a sense) because now that position can actually play in the rest of the game not just special teams. We shall see what the 49er brain trust says about the long snapper position.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
Created a thread for this so that the Danny Gray thread doesn't continue this conversation.

Someone said that there has been ZERO indication of our offense changing because Shanny built this team exactly how he wants it and I guess the presumption is we will see more of the same with Lance under center vice Jimmy. I disagree. I think the biggest trade in franchise history for Lance himself IS indication that not only does Shanny want a change but will in fact field a different offense then we've seen since his tenure. I think it will and always will be run first/dominant but with the added element of Trey for 11 on 11 football, Jimmy can't and hasn't done that. I think we will see more of the field used, in particular more deep shots and passes outside the numbers. I won't predict pass attempts as was asked in the other thread because IMO that is decided game to game and the scoreboard/defense plays a part in that; but gun to my head I actually think we won't have to pass as much (attempts) due to our run game being better and the deep shots hit or even missed to keep defenses honest. Jimmy hardly even did that. I do expect more pass interference calls then we ever had with Jimmy to go up for that alone. I don't expect all this in essentially Treys rookie season or first as a starter, but I know how it is here and Treys first year will be compared to Jimmy's entire time. Whatever; end of day I think we will see a different offense and we will see that this year granted Trey is the starter

I think eventually it will be more pass-centric offense, again depends on Trey's development. Until then - it will resemble a Bo Shembechkler offense for the most part.

Even if not "pass centric," to 808's reference of ATL, you can still be explosive within limited passing attempts. That offense only passed about 30-40 more times than we normally do but put up nearly 5K of offense and had an excellent running game too. I doubt we get to that level because I think that kind of explosive offense could wear out it's own defense over 17 games so I'd still anticipate more controlled passing and clock management for a better team balance. But yeah, if he can win primarily being run centric, why not!?! It keeps the other top QB's on the bench and our defense fresh and the big boys and Arby's happy imposing their will.

His reference of ATL doesn't make sense though in the way he was presenting them. He tries to paint them as a pass happy offense, when they were 26th out of 32 in the league in passing attempts and 12th in run attempts. They were literally a running team that got high volume passing yards because of Julio. If the niners get more passing yards it will be because of deeper attempts not because of them throwing the ball significantly more.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
Created a thread for this so that the Danny Gray thread doesn't continue this conversation.

Someone said that there has been ZERO indication of our offense changing because Shanny built this team exactly how he wants it and I guess the presumption is we will see more of the same with Lance under center vice Jimmy. I disagree. I think the biggest trade in franchise history for Lance himself IS indication that not only does Shanny want a change but will in fact field a different offense then we've seen since his tenure. I think it will and always will be run first/dominant but with the added element of Trey for 11 on 11 football, Jimmy can't and hasn't done that. I think we will see more of the field used, in particular more deep shots and passes outside the numbers. I won't predict pass attempts as was asked in the other thread because IMO that is decided game to game and the scoreboard/defense plays a part in that; but gun to my head I actually think we won't have to pass as much (attempts) due to our run game being better and the deep shots hit or even missed to keep defenses honest. Jimmy hardly even did that. I do expect more pass interference calls then we ever had with Jimmy to go up for that alone. I don't expect all this in essentially Treys rookie season or first as a starter, but I know how it is here and Treys first year will be compared to Jimmy's entire time. Whatever; end of day I think we will see a different offense and we will see that this year granted Trey is the starter

I think eventually it will be more pass-centric offense, again depends on Trey's development. Until then - it will resemble a Bo Shembechkler offense for the most part.

Even if not "pass centric," to 808's reference of ATL, you can still be explosive within limited passing attempts. That offense only passed about 30-40 more times than we normally do but put up nearly 5K of offense and had an excellent running game too. I doubt we get to that level because I think that kind of explosive offense could wear out it's own defense over 17 games so I'd still anticipate more controlled passing and clock management for a better team balance. But yeah, if he can win primarily being run centric, why not!?! It keeps the other top QB's on the bench and our defense fresh and the big boys and Arby's happy imposing their will.

His reference of ATL doesn't make sense though in the way he was presenting them. He tries to paint them as a pass happy offense, when they were 26th out of 32 in the league in passing attempts and 12th in run attempts. They were literally a running team that got high volume passing yards because of Julio. If the niners get more passing yards it will be because of deeper attempts not because of them throwing the ball significantly more.

I know. I was trying to be nice since he was courteous enough to make the thread-topic.

Year Team Pass Attempts per Game (%) || Rushing Attempts per Game (%) Passing Yards per Game (Rank)//Rushing Yards per Game (Rank)
2008 Texans 34.7 (56.3%) || 27 (43.7%) 266.7 (4) // 115.4 (13)
2009 Texans 37.1 (58.2%) || 26.6 (41.7) 290.9 (1) // 92.2 (30)
2010 Redskins 37.8 (63.3) || 21.9(36.7) 244.6 (8) // 91.3 (30)
2011 Redskins 36.9 (59.6) || 25 (40.4) 235.8 (14) // 100.9 (25)
2012 Redskins 27.6 (46%) || 32.4 (54%) 213.9 (20) // 169.3 (1)
2013 Redskins 38.2 (57.4%) || 28.3 (42.6) 234.4 (16) // 135.2 (5)
2014 Browns 31.4 (51.3%) || 29.8 (48.7) 216.6 (20) // 108 (17)
2015 Falcons 38.8 (59.7%) || 26.2 (40.3) 273.7 (6) // 100.4 (19)
https://thefalconscage.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/shanahan-in-2016/

Prior to Kyle's 49ers Head Coaching job, he was a pass first coach.
Here is how I think the offense can be more pass-centric vs the current run-centric offense we have now. Also I highlighted Year 2012 because that was RG3's rookie year where I think Kyle tried to run the ball more to protect RG3.

These numbers are pre 49ers - where Kyle (I think) had a philosophical change due to Kyle being a head coach versus just being an offensive coordinator. Now that Trey is a brand new QB, although he's in his 2nd year, I think the run game will be important this season until Trey proves to Kyle he is as consistent a passer as Matt Ryan and his previous veteran QB's. But once Trey is as consistent as Matt Ryan etc... I think we should expect a pass first offense.

With the exception of 2012, Shanahan's offenses have been pass happy. By indirectly comparing Matt Ryan to the Texan's Quarterback in 2008 and 2009, Matt Schaub, slight improvement can be expected in the 2016 Falcons Average Points and Yards per Game. There is also hope for improvement in the turnover categories.
https://thefalconscage.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/shanahan-in-2016/

Here is an article on Kyle's deep pass philosophy

Shanahan insisted that the Falcons are always searching for times to strike deep, but they don't want to force passes into deep coverage.
"You always look at that after each game, when did you have (a one-on-one deep opportunity) and when did you not," Shanahan said. "Explosive plays, I think this will be my ninth year calling plays, it's really never been an issue. We didn't get as many last year."
https://www.albanyherald.com/sports/kyle-shanahan-believes-offense-will-thrive-with-cut-in-turnovers/article_fc09e7e8-7f94-51f5-820b-17e586c9a53a.html

Oh. it'll be different, but it will be in situational. As a whole, no.

You sure as hell hope it will be different. You don't spend three 1st round picks to move up to draft Lance with the expectation that the offense will stay the same. Kyle is looking for that transcendent QB to take his offense to a level that hasn't been seen since the Steve Young days. A MVP caliber QB that Kyle hasn't had since Matt Ryan circa 2016.

So yea, it will be different......it will be much worse with Trey running the show.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
You sure as hell hope it will be different. You don't spend three 1st round picks to move up to draft Lance with the expectation that the offense will stay the same. Kyle is looking for that transcendent QB to take his offense to a level that hasn't been seen since the Steve Young days. A MVP caliber QB that Kyle hasn't had since Matt Ryan circa 2016.

So yea, it will be different......it will be much worse with Trey running the show.

This won't age well.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
This won't age well.

Pin that mother f**ker