Week 3 @ Denver Broncos Coaches Film analysis thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
An elite offense in today's NFL needs to get explosives when it's just a "basic" play. Kyle has to scheme explosives because Jimmy creates these at a very low percentage. The last one I remember was Jimmy deep post to Deebo vs CHI last season. What I mean is on typical route plays, hit that deep throw. No QB hits them all, but a good QB needs to hit one or two over the course of a game and Jimmy wasn't able to. A defense that plays man-match can get confused and the 49ers had them confused on a couple plays - once Deebo ran wide open (Kittle and Deebo criss cross in trips bunch), once Aiyuk (safety on trips side rotated down; was a pass to Kittle deflected at line).

This is another (@16:12, slot fade with Aiyuk versus LB in man; just try it put it at the red star). Jimmy's best throw was wasted with the Jennings bobble.

Jimmy isn't the type of QB to flip a switch and it's game on. His lack of camp means he can't rely on timing, and coming back from an injury makes things worse. This was bottom of the sea level Jimmy so he should play better as he gets more time as starter in practice. I don't know why he treats so many passes as fadeaway jump shots. I'm not a QB guru either, but his lower body mechanics are bad, and he doesn't have the arm to make off platform throws past 15 yards. He needs to drive through when he's given the time and room to. But this is who he is at this point.

Shame that the offense clouds the defensive effort. All the chip blocking that the opposing offense is doing makes playing zone easier for the seven in coverage. DEN got some very fortunate bounces - two fumbles that bounced back to them, and a tipped ball high in the air that fell incomplete. Turnovers are luck but the chance for turnovers takes defensive skill. They come in bunches.
Thanks for the video. I don't always listen to in-video promos, but when there's a sack joke, I'm glad I did.

This is the s**t I've been saying for two yrs now! People act like the overall play calling is stagnant when in reality it isn't. Plays are there to be had, the QB has to take advantage of it. Lance would lack in certain areas early in his career, but I feel like we would hit more of these explosives this yr. It would open the field and playbook imo.

as far as his mechanics it's always been an issue imo. He throws with a lot of upper body torque, which is great for those quick pass plays "his quick release" but the lower body mechanics are a mess. He never steps into his throws and always looks like he's throwing off his back foot. He doesn't have the arm talent to do that type of stuff. It creates very inaccurate passes downfield and velocity is lacking.

I have said this no less than 100 times to everyone I know when I'm talking about Jimmy and it's refreshing to see that someone else sees it too because I never hear it talked about. I'm a Jimmy supporter but his accuracy sometimes is a direct result of this and it drives me nuts

Those 'swirl' routes, DEN was all over them. I don't think they respect the 49er WRs running a Corner route so they are squatting on those swirls. Happened a few times when the swirl wasn't targeted. When it was targeted (early 1Q), Surtain made a good play on the attempt to Aiyuk and broke it up.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
If Jimmy needs to learn the playbook again every offseason, after being in the system for 6 years, how long is he actually capable of retaining information for? Is he working with the memory of a goldfish?

Goldfish might be pretty close. He needs three thousand preseason reps to pull off a 20 and 12 season for God sakes. Purdy should be getting game reps. He is the new backup, right?WTF is Kyle doing???!!!He's a completely confused narcissist. Outside his scheme, he's a mess in game. Bring in Peyton so Trey can make it rain all over the field

Originally posted by socal1632:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
If Jimmy needs to learn the playbook again every offseason, after being in the system for 6 years, how long is he actually capable of retaining information for? Is he working with the memory of a goldfish?

Goldfish might be pretty close. He needs three thousand preseason reps to pull off a 20 and 12 season for God sakes. Purdy should be getting game reps. He is the new backup, right?WTF is Kyle doing???!!!He's a completely confused narcissist. Outside his scheme, he's a mess in game. Bring in Peyton so Trey can make it rain all over the field

You mean the same Payton who had a HOF QB for 15 years but went to 1 super bowl?

The same Payton who authorized a bounty program that included taking out Frank Gores knees?

Originally posted by socal1632:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
If Jimmy needs to learn the playbook again every offseason, after being in the system for 6 years, how long is he actually capable of retaining information for? Is he working with the memory of a goldfish?

Goldfish might be pretty close. He needs three thousand preseason reps to pull off a 20 and 12 season for God sakes. Purdy should be getting game reps. He is the new backup, right?WTF is Kyle doing???!!!He's a completely confused narcissist. Outside his scheme, he's a mess in game. Bring in Peyton so Trey can make it rain all over the field

It's not about knowing the playbook, it's about establishing a rhythm within the passing game. Maybe if I put into these terms, it'll be easier to digest: Jimmy isn't good enough to flip a switch and be at his best. Even though he's a veteran, he not the type of player that can simply pick up a football and play as though he's in midseason form. DEN was one of his worst games, and as he gets re-acclimated to game speed, he'll do better. The whole, "it's like riding a bike", was him talking out of his ass - he needs to practice to be at his best.

I don't understand why Aiyuk losing his route matters in the context of the play where Jimmy missed Deebo running down the right sidelines.

Jimmy initially looked to his right (off his primary receiver?) to the trips receiver side and then looked left and threw to Aiyuk with the safety crashing down.

He didn't read the safety. He didn't see Deebo wide open even though he was looking right at him. But the play failed because Aiyuk didn't win his route?

I mean… even the pass behind Deebo was apparently not Jimmy's fault either. Because why? Jimmy was under pressure? QBs can still make that play happen around the league. Idk why it's not fair to say Jimmy should have made those.

All of last season I was told that Trey shouldn't get any reps because Jimmy's much better at reading defenses. I really don't think that's true at all. He just has a much more repeatable throwing motion, a very quick release, and many more years of experience. But his footwork and pocket movement has been dreadful over the years. It's almost like he compensates for his lack of mobility by throwing off his back foot and utilizing that release, so he doesn't actively practice the footwork necessary to throw deep. He gets lazy with his footwork and lazy with his eyes way too often IMO.

Originally posted by thl408:
It's not about knowing the playbook, it's about establishing a rhythm within the passing game. Maybe if I put into these terms, it'll be easier to digest: Jimmy isn't good enough to flip a switch and be at his best. Even though he's a veteran, he not the type of player that can simply pick up a football and play as though he's in midseason form. DEN was one of his worst games, and as he gets re-acclimated to game speed, he'll do better. The whole, "it's like riding a bike", was him talking out of his ass - he needs to practice to be at his best.

based on his recent playing are we sure he isn't in midseason form?

Apparently, Jimmy is the worse QB in the league when facing disguised coverages. Probably trusts his pre snap read way too often and fails to adjust accordingly.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't understand why Aiyuk losing his route matters in the context of the play where Jimmy missed Deebo running down the right sidelines.

Jimmy initially looked to his right (off his primary receiver?) to the trips receiver side and then looked left and threw to Aiyuk with the safety crashing down.

He didn't read the safety. He didn't see Deebo wide open even though he was looking right at him. But the play failed because Aiyuk didn't win his route?

I mean… even the pass behind Deebo was apparently not Jimmy's fault either. Because why? Jimmy was under pressure? QBs can still make that play happen around the league. Idk why it's not fair to say Jimmy should have made those.

All of last season I was told that Trey shouldn't get any reps because Jimmy's much better at reading defenses. I really don't think that's true at all. He just has a much more repeatable throwing motion, a very quick release, and many more years of experience. But his footwork and pocket movement has been dreadful over the years. It's almost like he compensates for his lack of mobility by throwing off his back foot and utilizing that release, so he doesn't actively practice the footwork necessary to throw deep. He gets lazy with his footwork and lazy with his eyes way too often IMO.

The play where they were in trips bunch and Deebo had his hand up? That's on Jimmy imo. I've mentioned this already, but DEN was blowing assignments when trying to man-match trips formations. When Deebo and Kittle criss crossed, DEN got confused and blew coverage. It's up to Jimmy to see that. He was looking right there and looked away. No idea what he wanted more of there. Would have been an easy 40 yard gain, at least.

Originally posted by thl408:
The play where they were in trips bunch and Deebo had his hand up? That's on Jimmy imo. I've mentioned this already, but DEN was blowing assignments when trying to man-match trips formations. When Deebo and Kittle criss crossed, DEN got confused and blew coverage. It's up to Jimmy to see that. He was looking right there and looked away. No idea what he wanted more of there. Would have been an easy 40 yard gain, at least.

JTO said basically the same thing. Even if it is designed to go to Aiyuk you have to be able to see the busted coverage and hit the play.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't understand why Aiyuk losing his route matters in the context of the play where Jimmy missed Deebo running down the right sidelines.

Jimmy initially looked to his right (off his primary receiver?) to the trips receiver side and then looked left and threw to Aiyuk with the safety crashing down.

He didn't read the safety. He didn't see Deebo wide open even though he was looking right at him. But the play failed because Aiyuk didn't win his route?

I mean… even the pass behind Deebo was apparently not Jimmy's fault either. Because why? Jimmy was under pressure? QBs can still make that play happen around the league. Idk why it's not fair to say Jimmy should have made those.

All of last season I was told that Trey shouldn't get any reps because Jimmy's much better at reading defenses. I really don't think that's true at all. He just has a much more repeatable throwing motion, a very quick release, and many more years of experience. But his footwork and pocket movement has been dreadful over the years. It's almost like he compensates for his lack of mobility by throwing off his back foot and utilizing that release, so he doesn't actively practice the footwork necessary to throw deep. He gets lazy with his footwork and lazy with his eyes way too often IMO.

The play where they were in trips bunch and Deebo had his hand up? That's on Jimmy imo. I've mentioned this already, but DEN was blowing assignments when trying to man-match trips formations. When Deebo and Kittle criss crossed, DEN got confused and blew coverage. It's up to Jimmy to see that. He was looking right there and looked away. No idea what he wanted more of there. Would have been an easy 40 yard gain, at least.

Yeah, I just don't understand how people can say Jimmy's so much better at reads and yet he can't look past his primary target… or when his primary target doesn't get open, then the play wasn't his fault.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't understand why Aiyuk losing his route matters in the context of the play where Jimmy missed Deebo running down the right sidelines.

Jimmy initially looked to his right (off his primary receiver?) to the trips receiver side and then looked left and threw to Aiyuk with the safety crashing down.

He didn't read the safety. He didn't see Deebo wide open even though he was looking right at him. But the play failed because Aiyuk didn't win his route?

I mean… even the pass behind Deebo was apparently not Jimmy's fault either. Because why? Jimmy was under pressure? QBs can still make that play happen around the league. Idk why it's not fair to say Jimmy should have made those.

All of last season I was told that Trey shouldn't get any reps because Jimmy's much better at reading defenses. I really don't think that's true at all. He just has a much more repeatable throwing motion, a very quick release, and many more years of experience. But his footwork and pocket movement has been dreadful over the years. It's almost like he compensates for his lack of mobility by throwing off his back foot and utilizing that release, so he doesn't actively practice the footwork necessary to throw deep. He gets lazy with his footwork and lazy with his eyes way too often IMO.

The play where they were in trips bunch and Deebo had his hand up? That's on Jimmy imo. I've mentioned this already, but DEN was blowing assignments when trying to man-match trips formations. When Deebo and Kittle criss crossed, DEN got confused and blew coverage. It's up to Jimmy to see that. He was looking right there and looked away. No idea what he wanted more of there. Would have been an easy 40 yard gain, at least.

Yeah, I just don't understand how people can say Jimmy's so much better at reads and yet he can't look past his primary target… or when his primary target doesn't get open, then the play wasn't his fault.

look at that great pocket... wish NC could see this

That play is very frustrating. Mostly because Jimmy was looking right at it and Deebo, being a vertical route, is most likely first in the progression. I'd love to know what Jimmy didn't like about what he saw there. That better not be the play where Jimmy (supposedly) mouths "your plays suck man".

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't understand why Aiyuk losing his route matters in the context of the play where Jimmy missed Deebo running down the right sidelines.

Jimmy initially looked to his right (off his primary receiver?) to the trips receiver side and then looked left and threw to Aiyuk with the safety crashing down.

He didn't read the safety. He didn't see Deebo wide open even though he was looking right at him. But the play failed because Aiyuk didn't win his route?

I mean… even the pass behind Deebo was apparently not Jimmy's fault either. Because why? Jimmy was under pressure? QBs can still make that play happen around the league. Idk why it's not fair to say Jimmy should have made those.

All of last season I was told that Trey shouldn't get any reps because Jimmy's much better at reading defenses. I really don't think that's true at all. He just has a much more repeatable throwing motion, a very quick release, and many more years of experience. But his footwork and pocket movement has been dreadful over the years. It's almost like he compensates for his lack of mobility by throwing off his back foot and utilizing that release, so he doesn't actively practice the footwork necessary to throw deep. He gets lazy with his footwork and lazy with his eyes way too often IMO.

Because, just because Jimmy has a bad rep, doesn't excuse Aiyuk having a bad rep too. If Aiyuk has a good rep, it's still a first down, we move and score points. If Jimmy has a good rep we score points - both plays are negatives. If either one are positive, we score points. Spotlighting Jimmy isn't wrong, but it absolves Aiyuk of responsibility.

I just had this convo with John Chapman on his show - my point is, Aiyuk is a 25th overall pick in his 3rd year and there were many times when he was in 1v1 coverage with Surtain, we wanted to get him the ball and he didn't create much separation, if any. He was a first round WR. He needs to be in that conversation with Jaylen Waddle, Mike Evans, Davante Adams, Davonte Smith - guys who their ability to defeat man-cov in a ton of ways - slants, quick outs, corner routes, stop routes, sluggo's, basic, unders all sorts of routes, that it forces a DC to change the way they're going to play defense. Aiyuk is a good player right now. We need him to be that X receiver and force defenses to double him.

Originally posted by thl408:
That play is very frustrating. Mostly because Jimmy was looking right at it and Deebo, being a vertical route, is most likely first in the progression. I'd love to know what Jimmy didn't like about what he saw there. That better not be the play where Jimmy (supposedly) mouths "your plays suck man".

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a water concept - Kyle has quite a few of the "water" concepts in their paired with variations. There's "flag water, which replaces the corner route with a deep out. There's Choice-water shallow which replaces the quick out with a choice route to go in or out(the Kittle play vs the Saints), "H choice water' which is where the H back runs the choice route on the water. There's "banner water" where the quick out is replaced with a whip route - out/in. which, the water is always a shallow cross(water) and a basic and then the variation will be the quick out. C.O is a quick out.

It looks like Jennings runs the wrong route here cause he gets jammed but is running the same route as Deebo - he was supposed to run the shallow-cross. Deebo is the alert - which Jimmy obviously should see. But, there's the progression. The confusion for Jennings was on which receiver he was as you see the shallow-cross is denoted by the player designation and "water"