CMC, Elite RB who will start!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
once he posts something he has to dig in .. right or wrong

Pot meet kettle

depends on what it is, saying CMC has no value to this offense is not one

Show me where I said he has no value? I said RBs overall aren't a valuable as some think and our team is a great example of that. I said we need other things and overall our RBs aren't the main issue at all.

why did we sign Mckinnon for so much.. if RB is not vaulable ..when have we had a chance to get a back that could do it all like a Mckinion.. why did we have to use deebo to change the game at RB

there is no position on the "block" that could help us more than CMC would (this not saying we have to or else... this is just whats best that could be available)

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
why did we sign Mckinnon for so much.. if RB is not vaulable ..when have we had a chance to get a back that could do it all like a Mckinion.. why did we have to use deebo to change the game at RB

there is no position on the "block" that could help us more than CMC would (this not saying we have to or else... this is just whats best that could be available)

I don't know that I would have used McKinnon as an example when he's more an example as to why RBs shouldn't be overvalued. They are good in theory, but tend to get banged up too much.

but I would really really really like to have an elite RB like that…. In theory…

I disagree with ny though… I think we'd see a big difference in the offense with an elite RB. I agree with him that we shouldn't trade for one.

Originally posted by 5thSFG:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
why did we sign Mckinnon for so much.. if RB is not vaulable ..when have we had a chance to get a back that could do it all like a Mckinion.. why did we have to use deebo to change the game at RB

there is no position on the "block" that could help us more than CMC would (this not saying we have to or else... this is just whats best that could be available)

I don't know that I would have used McKinnon as an example when he's more an example as to why RBs shouldn't be overvalued. They are good in theory, but tend to get banged up too much.

but I would really really really like to have an elite RB like that…. In theory…

i used that example as it's what Kyle wanted or envisioned his RB would be. We've gotten lucky and unlucky trying to fill that role.. but it doesn't mean we don't need a back like that

This is somewhat of a tangent, however, it presents an interesting picture.

Sportrac updates the True Value of players weekly, comparing their production with their salary. Josh Jacobs brings top value among running backs, followed by Nick Chubb and Ramondre Stevenson. CMC is #20 on the list and Jeff Wilson is #22. So, if you are looking for bang for your buck, CMC and Wilson are virtually the same.

Of course, if you are simply shopping for the best performer, CMC is #4 at PFF, while Wilson is #38. So, if you buy into the idea that the lack of a better running game is primarily about the guy toting the rock, CMC is the guy.

If it were my money I'm spending, I would try to pry Frank Ragnow from the Lions. They need picks to rebuild and Ragnow would be a significant upgrade in run blocking from Brendel. To be fair, FR is a bit lower than Brendell in PP but his RBK ratings make him an overall better center...+ plus his experience.

No one can run if the holes aren't there. (stating the obvious)

Originally posted by dj43:
This is somewhat of a tangent, however, it presents an interesting picture.

Sportrac updates the True Value of players weekly, comparing their production with their salary. Josh Jacobs brings top value among running backs, followed by Nick Chubb and Ramondre Stevenson. CMC is #20 on the list and Jeff Wilson is #22. So, if you are looking for bang for your buck, CMC and Wilson are virtually the same.

Of course, if you are simply shopping for the best performer, CMC is #4 at PFF, while Wilson is #38. So, if you buy into the idea that the lack of a better running game is primarily about the guy toting the rock, CMC is the guy.

If it were my money I'm spending, I would try to pry Frank Ragnow from the Lions. They need picks to rebuild and Ragnow would be a significant upgrade in run blocking from Brendel. To be fair, FR is a bit lower than Brendell in PP but his RBK ratings make him an overall better center...+ plus his experience.

No one can run if the holes aren't there. (stating the obvious)

And Ragnow went to school where?

Originally posted by dj43:
This is somewhat of a tangent, however, it presents an interesting picture.

Sportrac updates the True Value of players weekly, comparing their production with their salary. Josh Jacobs brings top value among running backs, followed by Nick Chubb and Ramondre Stevenson. CMC is #20 on the list and Jeff Wilson is #22. So, if you are looking for bang for your buck, CMC and Wilson are virtually the same.

Of course, if you are simply shopping for the best performer, CMC is #4 at PFF, while Wilson is #38. So, if you buy into the idea that the lack of a better running game is primarily about the guy toting the rock, CMC is the guy.

If it were my money I'm spending, I would try to pry Frank Ragnow from the Lions. They need picks to rebuild and Ragnow would be a significant upgrade in run blocking from Brendel. To be fair, FR is a bit lower than Brendell in PP but his RBK ratings make him an overall better center...+ plus his experience.

No one can run if the holes aren't there. (stating the obvious)

I think a center would be a really nice pickup. And one that can be here beyond 2022 would really help. I don't think a team looking to sell off assets should trade away a good center though. I've seen some say that a center can't come in and help immediately due to not knowing the playbook/scheme. That's fine, he can sit for however many weeks he needs. A good center would really help the run game.

I'm going to stay on my soapbox about OL, particularly IOL, here in evaluating the running game.

We all see Nick Chubb at the top of the charts in RBs. What gets overlooked is the incredible OL he gets to run behind. The IOL is on another planet.

Eric Pocic at center is tied for the #3 overall spot with an RBK rating of 73.4. Joe Bitonio is # the 1 overall guard. RBK of 81.5! Wyatt Teller is tied for #2. RBK = 88.2! Tops in the league. The OTs are not quite at that level but are good. 63.1 for Conklin and 78.8 for Hudson.

So, of course, Chubb is going to roll up some awesome numbers. He has the best group in the league to run behind.

Now for those who believe it takes the threat of a very good passing QB in order to run the ball well, Jacoby Brissett has a very average passing rating of 69 compared to Jimmy Garoppolo's 66.7.

Conclusion: If you want to run the ball better, put a better run-blocking OL group upfront and you will run it better.

Of course, the comparative weakness of the OL is not news. We spent the entire offseason lamenting exactly that as being the biggest weakness on the team.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:
This is somewhat of a tangent, however, it presents an interesting picture.

Sportrac updates the True Value of players weekly, comparing their production with their salary. Josh Jacobs brings top value among running backs, followed by Nick Chubb and Ramondre Stevenson. CMC is #20 on the list and Jeff Wilson is #22. So, if you are looking for bang for your buck, CMC and Wilson are virtually the same.

Of course, if you are simply shopping for the best performer, CMC is #4 at PFF, while Wilson is #38. So, if you buy into the idea that the lack of a better running game is primarily about the guy toting the rock, CMC is the guy.

If it were my money I'm spending, I would try to pry Frank Ragnow from the Lions. They need picks to rebuild and Ragnow would be a significant upgrade in run blocking from Brendel. To be fair, FR is a bit lower than Brendell in PP but his RBK ratings make him an overall better center...+ plus his experience.

No one can run if the holes aren't there. (stating the obvious)

I think a center would be a really nice pickup. And one that can be here beyond 2022 would really help. I don't think a team looking to sell off assets should trade away a good center though. I've seen some say that a center can't come in and help immediately due to not knowing the playbook/scheme. That's fine, he can sit for however many weeks he needs. A good center would really help the run game.

I agree it is not a good plan to sell off an asset like a center. However, if we offered a couple of picks, a 3rd and a 5th, the Lions might jump. They are low on the talent level. Bold moves are often necessary to get over the hump.

An upgrade at center would help a ton for sure all the way around, what would you think the compensation would be for a dude like Ragnow? A 2nd maybe?

I am still pretty firm in the upgrade the RB camp looking at the advanced run stats but would be pretty stoked on an upgrade at center

Originally posted by Tman:
An upgrade at center would help a ton for sure all the way around, what would you think the compensation would be for a dude like Ragnow? A 2nd maybe?

I am still pretty firm in the upgrade the RB camp looking at the advanced run stats but would be pretty stoked on an upgrade at center

I suggested in my post that a 3rd and a 5th might work. Ragnow was a 1st round pick and is currently the #11 center in the league. A single 2nd would be a fair price but I don't want to give up that pick right now. The Lions need players thus 2 slightly lower picks would be a good starting point.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Tman:
An upgrade at center would help a ton for sure all the way around, what would you think the compensation would be for a dude like Ragnow? A 2nd maybe?

I am still pretty firm in the upgrade the RB camp looking at the advanced run stats but would be pretty stoked on an upgrade at center

I suggested in my post that a 3rd and a 5th might work. Ragnow was a 1st round pick and is currently the #11 center in the league. A single 2nd would be a fair price but I don't want to give up that pick right now. The Lions need players thus 2 slightly lower picks would be a good starting point.

👍

Originally posted by Tman:
I haven't disregarded anything, the stacked box just further proves my point of the excellent run blocking JWJ is receiving…don't forget run blocking is a team effort not an individual lineman effort.

Either way you are now a proven liar that will post whatever garbage fits your weak narrative so you can "win". Don't need to engage with you further.

Lol oh f**k off. Stacked boxes lead to getting hit before the LOS and less yards after contact. He gets chunk yards off OZ plays which increase YPC.

only one lying in here is you. No one thinks Wilson is better. RB isn't the problem and that's been the debate. Yes do me a favor and don't engage with me anymore k thanks

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
why did we sign Mckinnon for so much.. if RB is not vaulable ..when have we had a chance to get a back that could do it all like a Mckinion.. why did we have to use deebo to change the game at RB

there is no position on the "block" that could help us more than CMC would (this not saying we have to or else... this is just whats best that could be available)

Why isn't our dynamic runner in Deebo winning behind center this yr? We actually have no idea who's available and who's not.

listen no one thinks CMC wouldn't be cool here. IMO they need to use those resources elsewhere. We all argue about this stuff every trade deadline and nothing comes about.

Originally posted by thl408:
I think a center would be a really nice pickup. And one that can be here beyond 2022 would really help. I don't think a team looking to sell off assets should trade away a good center though. I've seen some say that a center can't come in and help immediately due to not knowing the playbook/scheme. That's fine, he can sit for however many weeks he needs. A good center would really help the run game.

Thank you!

Originally posted by dj43:
This is somewhat of a tangent, however, it presents an interesting picture.

Sportrac updates the True Value of players weekly, comparing their production with their salary. Josh Jacobs brings top value among running backs, followed by Nick Chubb and Ramondre Stevenson. CMC is #20 on the list and Jeff Wilson is #22. So, if you are looking for bang for your buck, CMC and Wilson are virtually the same.

Of course, if you are simply shopping for the best performer, CMC is #4 at PFF, while Wilson is #38. So, if you buy into the idea that the lack of a better running game is primarily about the guy toting the rock, CMC is the guy.

If it were my money I'm spending, I would try to pry Frank Ragnow from the Lions. They need picks to rebuild and Ragnow would be a significant upgrade in run blocking from Brendel. To be fair, FR is a bit lower than Brendell in PP but his RBK ratings make him an overall better center...+ plus his experience.

No one can run if the holes aren't there. (stating the obvious)

Evan Brown is a guy to check out. He was the lions center most of last yr (played well) and is back to being Frank's backup. He got resigned for like $2M because he was a restricted FA. Here's a thread on him from last yr


I think he's all but gone after this season to start somewhere else.