CMC, Elite RB who will start!

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
I'm going to stay on my soapbox about OL, particularly IOL, here in evaluating the running game.

We all see Nick Chubb at the top of the charts in RBs. What gets overlooked is the incredible OL he gets to run behind. The IOL is on another planet.

Eric Pocic at center is tied for the #3 overall spot with an RBK rating of 73.4. Joe Bitonio is # the 1 overall guard. RBK of 81.5! Wyatt Teller is tied for #2. RBK = 88.2! Tops in the league. The OTs are not quite at that level but are good. 63.1 for Conklin and 78.8 for Hudson.

So, of course, Chubb is going to roll up some awesome numbers. He has the best group in the league to run behind.

Now for those who believe it takes the threat of a very good passing QB in order to run the ball well, Jacoby Brissett has a very average passing rating of 69 compared to Jimmy Garoppolo's 66.7.

Conclusion: If you want to run the ball better, put a better run-blocking OL group upfront and you will run it better.

Of course, the comparative weakness of the OL is not news. We spent the entire offseason lamenting exactly that as being the biggest weakness on the team.

Agreed also having to face some of the most stacked boxes across the league v doesn't help. It's every yr. QB play matters there, not saying Jimmy isn't it paying okay but teams still don't respect the passing game the way they should.

dj just doesn't get it. We would need to run a goaline type offense to counter the stacks on Defense.. like what Atl did to us

The issue centers around your consistent unwillingness to move off your constant attacks on Garoppolo and recognize that bringing in CMC will not change the fact that the drop in the running game is based far more on the identifiable drop in quality of the run blocking by the realigned IOL than it is on QB play.

We have the same QB this year that we had last year at the same time but were running the ball better.

I noted that Cleveland has a much less effective passing game than SF, however, due to the high quality of their OL they are running the ball well despite constantly facing 8-in-the-box. Yet, you ignore that data completely.

I get it. I have seen it for a long time. You choose to focus only on the QB and ignore all other causes. So, let's move on. This theme has circled back to the starting point.

like i said, you just don't get it. There is a difference from an 8 man box vs an 8 man box selling out to stop the run

yes, We faced the 8 man box last year, but no one sold out on the run so dramatically until we faced the Rams the 3rd time (2019 SB also). Since then, a lot teams who could, have done the same thing. Its the very reason we have been passing more. we have to take advantage of the mismatches now in the secondary. Once we start completing more it will open up the Run game.. When this happens, it won't be magic that our Run Blocking starts to get better

We are 7th in the league in passing (last i checked) so it hasn't been terrible, is that by necessity? Probably but still not terrible. Jimmy, the Oline and receivers could all play better for sure but all the numbers I look at keep pointing directly towards the person running the ball so far this season.

Originally posted by Tman:
So other then the YPC does anybody have something to show that Wilson is even a starter quality back and having a more talented back wouldn't dramatically improve the run game? He really isn't passing the eye test either.

We will probably have to wait for Mitchell to come back so we can see what the run game looks like with a more talented runner this season.

Well according to PFF as a runner these guys aren't starters according to you

Alvin Kamara, Raheem Mostert, Mixon, Taylor, sanders, Fournette, Najee, conner, hunt, Montgomery, CHE, Breece Hall. All are graded worse (hall is one spot ahead)

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
dj just doesn't get it. We would need to run a goaline type offense to counter the stacks on Defense.. like what Atl did to us

It's a multi layered issue but yeah no one should expect our run game to kick as vs some of the most stacked boxes in the NFL.

as far as CMC, without question he's more talented then anyone we have in our RB room. Sure he makes the team better. Never denied that. purely as a fan I would love to see him here along with any other stud player.

My point is people think our running backs are the issue with the running game and overall that's not really true. NC isn't letting him go for some conditional 3rd rd picks. Reports are they want multiple 1sts, they will never get that but this isn't Pawn Stars, they can just hold onto him….he's under contract.

def a layered issue.. but with CMC in the backfield he def can be moved out of the backfield against a stacked box and create mismatches on the outside or slot..leaving the defenses vulnerable. teams don't respect Wilson and if Deebo goes back there they know it's a run or some type of screen. we need to get defenses back on their heels instead of pinning their ears back

as for trades.. yeah it would be crazy for Car to trade all of their best assets away while trying to recruit the best HC candidate

Originally posted by Tman:
We are 7th in the league in passing (last i checked) so it hasn't been terrible, is that by necessity? Probably but still not terrible. Jimmy, the Oline and receivers could all play better for sure but all the numbers I look at keep pointing directly towards the person running the ball so far this season.

When you're one of the most stacked against teams in football you automatically have an advantage throwing the ball.

no the numbers don't suggests that… if you look at the IOL PBLK grades

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
def a layered issue.. but with CMC in the backfield he def can be moved out of the backfield against a stacked box and create mismatches on the outside or slot..leaving the defenses vulnerable. teams don't respect Wilson and if Deebo goes back there they know it's a run or some type of screen. we need to get defenses back on their heels instead of pinning their ears back

as for trades.. yeah it would be crazy for Car to trade all of their best assets away while trying to recruit the best HC candidate

I would love CMC with Kyle from a scheming standpoint and as a pass catcher…especially on 3rd downs. Will he magically make this run game amazing? I don't think so, better sure he's more talented. You need to RBLK at least at an avg level and our IOL is pretty awful there.

yeah I don't see him getting moved, not unless they get legit quality picks in return. There's no point in doing it otherwise.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
def a layered issue.. but with CMC in the backfield he def can be moved out of the backfield against a stacked box and create mismatches on the outside or slot..leaving the defenses vulnerable. teams don't respect Wilson and if Deebo goes back there they know it's a run or some type of screen. we need to get defenses back on their heels instead of pinning their ears back

as for trades.. yeah it would be crazy for Car to trade all of their best assets away while trying to recruit the best HC candidate

For sure, nor should they

If teams didn't respect our running game they wouldn't be stacking the box at a higher rate then just about every team in football…for years

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If teams didn't respect our running game they wouldn't be stacking the box at a higher rate then just about every team in football…for years

which would create not so favorable run block PFF stats

We need jimmy to cook and not check down so much

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If teams didn't respect our running game they wouldn't be stacking the box at a higher rate then just about every team in football…for years

which would create not so favorable run block PFF stats

We need jimmy to cook and not check down so much

Jimmy's been trying to cook, but the catchers are dropping the ingredients.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
which would create not so favorable run block PFF stats

We need jimmy to cook and not check down so much

Well our team run block has been middle of the road, could definitely been better

And Jimmy's "average depth of target" has been the highest its been the last 3 seasons so far. Just got to get those completed more often for sure.

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If teams didn't respect our running game they wouldn't be stacking the box at a higher rate then just about every team in football…for years

which would create not so favorable run block PFF stats

We need jimmy to cook and not check down so much

Jimmy's been trying to cook, but the catchers are dropping the ingredients.

they have indeed, but those drops are not the only passes attempted. He tends to force things after a mishap

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Per PFF

Brendel is the 28th ranked RBLK center in the NFL (out of 32 starters with at least 116 snaps)
Banks-53rd ranked RBLK guard in the NFL
Burford-64th ranked RBLK guard in the NFL
McG-14th ranked RBLK OT in the NFL
Moore-30th tanked RBLK OT in the NFL

Let's look at the bolded and recognize that's an issue regarding the running game.

Thank you.

I repeat myself for emphasis but compare that to Cleveland who succeeds with all three of their starting IOLs being in the top 3 in RBLK. Though defenses consistently sell out to try to stop them, they run successfully.

Yes, Nick Chubb is a top-level RB, however, he runs behind the best RBLK OL in football. His running success is not related to his threat as a pass receiver coming out of the backfield because he has caught only 7 passes in 229 snaps. (Jeff Wilson has caught 8 in 220 snaps.) With the Browns, you know what is coming but you can't stop it because the OL is SO good.

The argument they have a credible passing game in Cleveland fails miserably as Brissett is rated 15 points below JG. They have no credible WR threat unless you count Amari "what team can I play for next" Cooper who is rated #24 by PFF. The 49ers have Aiyuk at #8, Deebo at #37, plus JJ at #37, all of which are higher than the next Cleveland WR at #53. Cleveland does have one of the best receiving TEs in the league in Njoku, however, he is not a downfield threat that forces safeties away from the LOS.

So, again, would a consistent "playmaker" make a difference in the run game? Of course, however, not the huge difference we might hope for due to the lack of quality RBLK.

We have a journeyman center with two first year starters at guard, one of which is a rookie, and missing RB1, and missing our dominant LT. I wonder why the run game isn't as effective as last season.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If teams didn't respect our running game they wouldn't be stacking the box at a higher rate then just about every team in football…for years

which would create not so favorable run block PFF stats

We need jimmy to cook and not check down so much

Jimmy's been trying to cook, but the catchers are dropping the ingredients.

they have indeed, but those drops are not the only passes attempted. He tends to force things after a mishap

Yeah, still has bad throws that could've been better. Like throw to Kittle in the end zone.

Originally posted by thl408:
We have a journeyman center with two first year starters at guard, one of which is a rookie, and missing RB1, and missing our dominant LT. I wonder why the run game isn't as effective as last season.

Sounds like we need to have a run heavy plan with JWJ. That would solve it. Pay the big bucks to Deebo and Kittle to block for the bellcow Wilson. Or we could try passing the ball quick hitters to our YAC monsters. Is there a correct answer here?