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week 6 ATL Falcons Coaches Film Analysis

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Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
I thought the throw to Aiyuk was fine deep down the sideline, but wouldn't have been more ideal to lead him a bit more upfield so it wouldn't completely take him out of bounds? if that was a shot that landed in the endzone then hell yeah.

either way Jimmy had a nice deep ball game. which he has surprisingly been consistent with as of late.
with the way our offense is going.. i'm just happy it was complete..damn Refs

yeah. Jimmy's deep ball has improved. that's evident.

at the very least it was a good in game rep lol
[ Edited by Sanfran_chrisco on Oct 19, 2022 at 9:54 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Big shout out and reference to JD by DL.


*blushing*

It's at the 7 minute mark. Thanks, NC I didn't even get a chance to see that yet.
  • thl408
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jd, would you say that the 49ers are no longer an outside zone run team? For sure it's not heavy outside zone like years past, but this season I'd say it took another step away from being an outside zone scheme.
Originally posted by thl408:
jd, would you say that the 49ers are no longer an outside zone run team? For sure it's not heavy outside zone like years past, but this season I'd say it took another step away from being an outside zone scheme.

Definitely not seeing it as much but that could be a result of dropping overall efficiency. Plus, seeing more palms and weak side safeties as the league is morphing to counter the wide zone since Kyle's offense has spread so much
  • thl408
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
jd, would you say that the 49ers are no longer an outside zone run team? For sure it's not heavy outside zone like years past, but this season I'd say it took another step away from being an outside zone scheme.

Definitely not seeing it as much but that could be a result of dropping overall efficiency. Plus, seeing more palms and weak side safeties as the league is morphing to counter the wide zone since Kyle's offense has spread so much

The league is trending towards being a five man front with two deep safeties type of structure, whether it's Cover2 or Quarters (Palms). I believe that Kyle thinks the best way to run against that is between the tackles or just off tackle, not trying to get wide outside of the edges (outside zone). Watching the 49ers now, outside zone is called once in awhile, not most of the time like in past years. With the 49ers increase in shotgun usage (I think), outside zone is less effective because there isn't that long handoff sequence where the RB can take a few steps to build some speed prior to getting the ball like when the QB is under center.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Big shout out and reference to JD by DL.


*blushing*

It's at the 7 minute mark. Thanks, NC I didn't even get a chance to see that yet.

Of course, brother!
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
jd, would you say that the 49ers are no longer an outside zone run team? For sure it's not heavy outside zone like years past, but this season I'd say it took another step away from being an outside zone scheme.

Definitely not seeing it as much but that could be a result of dropping overall efficiency. Plus, seeing more palms and weak side safeties as the league is morphing to counter the wide zone since Kyle's offense has spread so much

Could it also be due to personnel? Maybe when Mitchell returns we see an uptick?
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
jd, would you say that the 49ers are no longer an outside zone run team? For sure it's not heavy outside zone like years past, but this season I'd say it took another step away from being an outside zone scheme.

Definitely not seeing it as much but that could be a result of dropping overall efficiency. Plus, seeing more palms and weak side safeties as the league is morphing to counter the wide zone since Kyle's offense has spread so much

The league is trending towards being a five man front with two deep safeties type of structure, whether it's Cover2 or Quarters (Palms). I believe that Kyle thinks the best way to run against that is between the tackles or just off tackle, not trying to get wide outside of the edges (outside zone). Watching the 49ers now, outside zone is called once in awhile, not most of the time like in past years. With the 49ers increase in shotgun usage (I think), outside zone is less effective because there isn't that long handoff sequence where the RB can take a few steps to build some speed prior to getting the ball like when the QB is under center.

Yeah, we're seeing a lot more 5/4i techs and not many 3's so it makes more sense to run inside vs at the edge.
  • thl408
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Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
jd, would you say that the 49ers are no longer an outside zone run team? For sure it's not heavy outside zone like years past, but this season I'd say it took another step away from being an outside zone scheme.

Definitely not seeing it as much but that could be a result of dropping overall efficiency. Plus, seeing more palms and weak side safeties as the league is morphing to counter the wide zone since Kyle's offense has spread so much

Could it also be due to personnel? Maybe when Mitchell returns we see an uptick?

I don't think it's a RB issue - it's the IOL's skillset (mainly the guards) and what the defense is doing that is causing this shift away from outside zone. Outside zone will never go away completely but today's defenses have caught on. This Shanahan outside zone coaching tree has spread over the past few seasons which means more DCs are thinking of more ways to combat it. The outside zone scheme had its time in the sun, for now.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
It's disappointing, but I can understand backups & 3rd Stringers playing like backups and 3rd stringers. They'll lose Kyle's trust, so that's on them to get even less playing time or passes thrown their way.

But Jonny you seemed to downplay Jimmy missed deep throw to Aiyuk. Brandon had his man beat for a potential TD, but Jimmy under threw it. That potential TD was needed in this kind of a game.

As well as that fourth down pass to Deebo who was clearly covered. Even if they are playing zone, shouldn't Jimmy have went to the next option which is Aiyuk that was behind him open for a 1st down?

I don't feel Jimmy played well or good. He had some good plays, and had two key drops that could've been big plays....he played like Jimmy.... . but still, I would hope he could get some points in the second half when he STILL has a Deebo, Aiyuk, and Kittle. Few teams have those kinds of weapons. The fact we didn't get any points in the second half is just worrying.

Going into this game, it was obvious that our offense needed to help our defense out. And I don't feel they did. Bad on bad was expected from the defense. They had backups, and didn't have the opportunity to keep the dline fresh like usual.

First, that deep ball, you can't expect a pinpoint throw on 50+ yards. I watch BUF and KC's tape and those kind of routes are thrown just like that a ton. Tyreek went and made catches on balls like that and even more underthrown all the time. If a receiver requires his QB to put a ball in a trash can that far downfield, that's unrealistic. If you look back on it, Jimmy is throwing as Aiyuk is breaking.

On the last play, those weren't my words, I took that from Kyle's presser. He said they were expecting man and had a man beater called and they came with zone. The bigger issue are the 2 plays before it. That's why I focused on those. Shouldn't even come down to the 4th down play.

It doesn't have to be a throw in a "trash can", i think that's a little disingenuous, it just has to be a throw that leads Aiyuk more to the sidelines. The ball was clearly under thrown. Not an easy throw by any means. But in the Denver game, you said something like, "Just because Jimmy had a bad read, doesn't mean we should excuse Aiyuk for his bad rep"

So how is this any different? Just because Aiyuk doesn't jump up and make the catch, that doesn't mean Jimmy couldn't have made a better throw.
[ Edited by Waterbear on Oct 19, 2022 at 11:05 AM ]
Hard for me to kill Ridgeway or Givens. Just like last year they bet too much on JV with no real back up plan. this year they did it again with Kinlaw. No real back up plan.
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Originally posted by lamontb:
Hard for me to kill Ridgeway or Givens. Just like last year they bet too much on JV with no real back up plan. this year they did it again with Kinlaw. No real back up plan.

It wouldn't be as bad if they weren't also missing AA in the middle. Oh and that Bosa guy is pretty good versus the run too. Just a perfect mix of bad, missing two good run defenders when going up against a good running team.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Hard for me to kill Ridgeway or Givens. Just like last year they bet too much on JV with no real back up plan. this year they did it again with Kinlaw. No real back up plan.

It wouldn't be as bad if they weren't also missing AA in the middle. Oh and that Bosa guy is pretty good versus the run too. Just a perfect mix of bad, missing two good run defenders when going up against a good running team.

AA or Kinlaw can't miss a game in reality and expect them team to win against good teams. They have nothing behind either guy. Zero depth at DT. Just like last year with 0 depth behind JV. When you have a guy that has shown you numerous times that he can't be trusted to stay healthy then you gotta get some better depth. that's the reasoning for my comparison to JV last year. Of course Bosa would help the run game overall but he can't help our DT issue
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
It's disappointing, but I can understand backups & 3rd Stringers playing like backups and 3rd stringers. They'll lose Kyle's trust, so that's on them to get even less playing time or passes thrown their way.

But Jonny you seemed to downplay Jimmy missed deep throw to Aiyuk. Brandon had his man beat for a potential TD, but Jimmy under threw it. That potential TD was needed in this kind of a game.

As well as that fourth down pass to Deebo who was clearly covered. Even if they are playing zone, shouldn't Jimmy have went to the next option which is Aiyuk that was behind him open for a 1st down?

I don't feel Jimmy played well or good. He had some good plays, and had two key drops that could've been big plays....he played like Jimmy.... . but still, I would hope he could get some points in the second half when he STILL has a Deebo, Aiyuk, and Kittle. Few teams have those kinds of weapons. The fact we didn't get any points in the second half is just worrying.

Going into this game, it was obvious that our offense needed to help our defense out. And I don't feel they did. Bad on bad was expected from the defense. They had backups, and didn't have the opportunity to keep the dline fresh like usual.

First, that deep ball, you can't expect a pinpoint throw on 50+ yards. I watch BUF and KC's tape and those kind of routes are thrown just like that a ton. Tyreek went and made catches on balls like that and even more underthrown all the time. If a receiver requires his QB to put a ball in a trash can that far downfield, that's unrealistic. If you look back on it, Jimmy is throwing as Aiyuk is breaking.

On the last play, those weren't my words, I took that from Kyle's presser. He said they were expecting man and had a man beater called and they came with zone. The bigger issue are the 2 plays before it. That's why I focused on those. Shouldn't even come down to the 4th down play.

It doesn't have to be a throw in a "trash can", i think that's a little disingenuous, it just has to be a throw that leads Aiyuk more to the sidelines. The ball was clearly under thrown. Not an easy throw by any means. But in the Denver game, you said something like, "Just because Jimmy had a bad read, doesn't mean we should excuse Aiyuk for his bad rep"

So how is this any different? Just because Aiyuk doesn't jump up and make the catch, that doesn't mean Jimmy couldn't have made a better throw.

I don't think the two are equal. There are different degrees of difficulty and also in comparison with the league.

Like I said, I see Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers throw these balls just like this all the time, more often than not. I could easily find 10 examples of Tyreek slowing up and making a high point catch in KC.

You can make the argument, "well they lead their guys into space better more often" well, can't we give Jimmy some space since he dropped 3 big time deep throws right on the money in the game, a 4th one can be just a tad off? You're asking for 100% perfection, which no QB in the league will provide. I'm asking for Aiyuk to elevate to a top tier WR because he's a 1st round pick and when you look around at the top, explosive offenses you will see guys who separate, make contested catches and high point deep balls. They make their QB's look a lot better. How different does Aaron Rodgers look this year without Davante Adams? Rodgers didn't get worse, Adams isn't there who is an absolute stud.

I want Aiyuk to be Adams. It's a high bar, but one I think he has all the tools to be. You can't ask your QB to be perfect in the deep passing game. There's not a single QB in the league that will meet that threshold. I sure hope Trey isn't held to that standard.
A few interesting points made by DL in that podcast that referred to JD.

1. We're 30th in pace...getting to the snap. Matt Ryan talked about that and this is mostly by design to stick with Kyle's goal to control the clock and keep opposing offenses on the sidelines and to rest our defense.
2. We had the most success when we moved to the pass to set up the run; the opposite has not been successful.
3. We're in the top left quadrant. Despite all the yard-killing penalties and massive drops, this team is highly efficient in passing compared to the rest of the league but poor in running. This is a reverse from the past.
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