Who holds this offense back more?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
The entire poll boils down to

KS the coach
KS the GM

who is to blame?

Who is to blame for what? It's almost as though the harder you think about something, the more absurd your posts become. Even as good as KS is, he can't make a backup QB perform like a great QB. He made huge moves to get a real QB, but he was injured. So Kyle is slathering as much lipstick on that pig as he can, and doing everything that can be done to win with the guy, until we can move on once our starting QB is healthy.

Lipstick on a pig that he signed for $137m. Straight genius.

I appreciate your choice of words, saying "signed" rather than "paid". He did sign him for more than he was worth, but he didn't pay him that much. He understood his mistake, then made moves to correct that mistake. That's exactly what I want to see out of my head coach.

Also, every motherf**ker on NT were wanting to sign Jimmy G in the 2018 offseason, so to drag that out now as some kind of indictment towards Kyle is such b******t. That was the understood risk with signing a free agent that had so little playing time, but the 2017 Jimmy looked to be very much worth that risk.

I look at it this way...

I don't blame JG for not being Allen / Mahomes. He's not that guy. He is maximizing who he is in this league.

KS isn't maximizing our QB room. I can think of like 15 better QB rooms. KS can do better at putting together the QB room. JG can't do better he's maxed out. This is my view.

Hold up, when Jimmy was signed as the backup and Trey was still healthy, you were one of the guys saying we had the strongest QB room in the league. Why the change of heart?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Lipstick on a pig that he signed for $137m. Straight genius.

Hindsight that contract was a mistake. Don't you agree?

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
The entire poll boils down to

KS the coach
KS the GM

who is to blame?

Who is to blame for what? It's almost as though the harder you think about something, the more absurd your posts become. Even as good as KS is, he can't make a backup QB perform like a great QB. He made huge moves to get a real QB, but he was injured. So Kyle is slathering as much lipstick on that pig as he can, and doing everything that can be done to win with the guy, until we can move on once our starting QB is healthy.

Lipstick on a pig that he signed for $137m. Straight genius.

I appreciate your choice of words, saying "signed" rather than "paid". He did sign him for more than he was worth, but he didn't pay him that much. He understood his mistake, then made moves to correct that mistake. That's exactly what I want to see out of my head coach.

Also, every motherf**ker on NT were wanting to sign Jimmy G in the 2018 offseason, so to drag that out now as some kind of indictment towards Kyle is such b******t. That was the understood risk with signing a free agent that had so little playing time, but the 2017 Jimmy looked to be very much worth that risk.

I look at it this way...

I don't blame JG for not being Allen / Mahomes. He's not that guy. He is maximizing who he is in this league.

KS isn't maximizing our QB room. I can think of like 15 better QB rooms. KS can do better at putting together the QB room. JG can't do better he's maxed out. This is my view.

Hold up, when Jimmy was signed as the backup and Trey was still healthy, you were one of the guys saying we had the strongest QB room in the league. Why the change of heart?

It's the NFL standing for not for long. Each year, we get a lot of new info. I was wrong if I said that. That would have been the case if TL had the year two major breakout. Didn't happen.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Lipstick on a pig that he signed for $137m. Straight genius.

Hindsight that contract was a mistake. Don't you agree?

Depends who starts without him.. If KS does better by landing someone else than it was. If KS doesn't land JG and rolls with Hoyer, Mullens, Beathard, he's probably no longer our HC. So in that scenario the move was a good one.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Depends who starts without him.. If KS does better by landing someone else than it was. If KS doesn't land JG and rolls with Hoyer, Mullens, Beathard, he's probably no longer our HC. So in that scenario the move was a good one.

We all know who it would've been in all likelihood.

Seeing what i've seen the last few years I do think it would've been better with Kirk.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Depends who starts without him.. If KS does better by landing someone else than it was. If KS doesn't land JG and rolls with Hoyer, Mullens, Beathard, he's probably no longer our HC. So in that scenario the move was a good one.

We all know who it would've been in all likelihood.

Seeing what i've seen the last few years I do think it would've been better with Kirk.

Man, what could have been.

Originally posted by random49er:
I mean look @ how much we celebrate a pinpoint pass on his roll out this last week,....lol. It's because we're just not used to seeing it from him.

A # of other teams, they say good throw and move forward while we highlight it like it's the most amazing thing. We're engrained to expect less,...amazing talent on deck or not.

49er fans for 20 years: "The WCO is about short, timing passes, and receivers gaining yards after the catch. Who cares if Montana and Young have weak arms and are surrounded by Pro Bowlers? They're smart and accurate and hit receivers in stride so they can run after the catch. Montana is GOAT."

49er fans now: "Who cares if Jimmy has been top 10 in passer rating all 3 healthy years since he has been here, and was 2nd in yards per pass attempt last year (and led the NFL in yards per completion) and 3rd in yards per pass attempt in 2019? Who cares if the team scored 479 points in 2019 with Jimmy, which was 2nd in the NFL? He has a weak arm and only throws short passes and is surrounded by Pro Bowlers! We need a division 1-AA power back who played 1 year of college football to come in and let it rip deep! Him leading the team to 10 points against the Bears this year on 5.9 yards per pass attempt showed what kind of amazing talent he is!"

Also, we could be celebrating him threading the needle to Aiyuk on that comeback on 3rd and long, but the fact that Aiyuk, like all of our receivers other than Jennings, sucks on out-breaking routes, sailed over anti-Jimmy fans' heads. Just like they whined about that INT Jimmy threw against the Colts that deflected off Deebo last year, making no observation of the fact that Deebo's a bad route runner.

Originally posted by random49er:
As you put it in your reintroduction here,..."I guess Steve Young just doesn't know football."

Appeal to authority is a fallacy. In this case, you're appealing to an authority who had so many concussions he had to retire from football because of them.

Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:

Originally posted by random49er:
I mean look @ how much we celebrate a pinpoint pass on his roll out this last week,....lol. It's because we're just not used to seeing it from him.

A # of other teams, they say good throw and move forward while we highlight it like it's the most amazing thing. We're engrained to expect less,...amazing talent on deck or not.

49er fans for 20 years: "The WCO is about short, timing passes, and receivers gaining yards after the catch. Who cares if Montana and Young have weak arms and are surrounded by Pro Bowlers? They're smart and accurate and hit receivers in stride so they can run after the catch. Montana is GOAT."

49er fans now: "Who cares if Jimmy has been top 10 in passer rating all 3 healthy years since he has been here, and was 2nd in yards per pass attempt last year (and led the NFL in yards per completion) and 3rd in yards per pass attempt in 2019? Who cares if the team scored 479 points in 2019 with Jimmy, which was 2nd in the NFL? He has a weak arm and only throws short passes and is surrounded by Pro Bowlers! We need a division 1-AA power back who played 1 year of college football to come in and let it rip deep! Him leading the team to 10 points against the Bears this year on 5.9 yards per pass attempt showed what kind of amazing talent he is!"

Also, we could be celebrating him threading the needle to Aiyuk on that comeback on 3rd and long, but the fact that Aiyuk, like all of our receivers other than Jennings, sucks on out-breaking routes, sailed over anti-Jimmy fans' heads. Just like they whined about that INT Jimmy threw against the Colts that deflected off Deebo last year, making no observation of the fact that Deebo's a bad route runner.

Originally posted by random49er:
As you put it in your reintroduction here,..."I guess Steve Young just doesn't know football."

Appeal to authority is a fallacy. In this case, you're appealing to an authority who had so many concussions he had to retire from football because of them.

This guy knows!

Just came in to post my weekly player to blame:

Mike McGlinchey is the reason why…..option C

The battle of our time



VS

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Maybe I'm going crazy (more than I already am)… but I think this is important to know the current state of the webzone on this question.

We have all this offensive talent and haven't put up a lot of points. So I ask you, who holds this offense back more? Jimmy or Kyle.

You forgot to add MM as one of the choices.

also why is every huddle to snap so long? where is the hurry up? why long developing plays in obvious blitz downs?

Saying the problem is "execution" doesn't absolve Shanahan. He's a head coach, not just a play caller. It's his responsibility to get the players to execute. It's not just one or two guys. It's the whole offense.

Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:
Saying the problem is "execution" doesn't absolve Shanahan. He's a head coach, not just a play caller. It's his responsibility to get the players to execute. It's not just one or two guys. It's the whole offense.

"Execution" is the problem.

It's the low hanging fruit. If execution is always the problem, call plays they can execute. Or coach them up to execute.

You can say this is the issue on every play called in history that doesn't score.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:

Saying the problem is "execution" doesn't absolve Shanahan. He's a head coach, not just a play caller. It's his responsibility to get the players to execute. It's not just one or two guys. It's the whole offense.

"Execution" is the problem.

It's the low hanging fruit. If execution is always the problem, call plays they can execute. Or coach them up to execute.

You can say this is the issue on every play called in history that doesn't score.

Do you think Shanahan should be more Walsh-esque and rip the heads off of assistants? NGL, it's been extremely frustrating to see a lot of big plays get wiped off the board from drops. It's been everyone. Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, Jennings, McCloud, Woerner.

I have a hard time believing Shanahan wouldn't harp on and coach execution with his offense. At what point do you say the guys just need to make simple plays? Why are our guys dropping so many passes they should catch? I mean, Kyle puts them in position to make plays but he can't make the ball stick to their hands.

TBH, from what I've seen lately, the 3 most common issues I've seen pop up on offense have been:

1. McGlinchey missing blocks
2. Guys dropping balls
3. Jimmy not seeing or choosing to not take the big-play shot.

I would argue 1/3 are talent/ability related issues. The 2nd I'd put more on execution AND/OR the position coaches who were delegated the responsibility to prepare these guys. Yeah, KS is over the whole team, I get that. But blaming him for everything seems like the easy cop out. I see no reason to believe he doesn't know what he's doing.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:
Saying the problem is "execution" doesn't absolve Shanahan. He's a head coach, not just a play caller. It's his responsibility to get the players to execute. It's not just one or two guys. It's the whole offense.

"Execution" is the problem.

It's the low hanging fruit. If execution is always the problem, call plays they can execute. Or coach them up to execute.

You can say this is the issue on every play called in history that doesn't score.

Do you think Shanahan should be more Walsh-esque and rip the heads off of assistants? NGL, it's been extremely frustrating to see a lot of big plays get wiped off the board from drops. It's been everyone. Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, Jennings, McCloud, Woerner.

I have a hard time believing Shanahan wouldn't harp on and coach execution with his offense. At what point do you say the guys just need to make simple plays? Why are our guys dropping so many passes they should catch? I mean, Kyle puts them in position to make plays but he can't make the ball stick to their hands.

TBH, from what I've seen lately, the 3 most common issues I've seen pop up on offense have been:

1. McGlinchey missing blocks
2. Guys dropping balls
3. Jimmy not seeing or choosing to not take the big-play shot.

I would argue 1/3 are talent/ability related issues. The 2nd I'd put more on execution AND/OR the position coaches who were delegated the responsibility to prepare these guys. Yeah, KS is over the whole team, I get that. But blaming him for everything seems like the easy cop out. I see no reason to believe he doesn't know what he's doing.

IMHO, it's culture. A culture with a lack of details, focus and accountability.

I say culture because we see the same themes every game, every year, of shooting ourselves in the foot with penalties, drops, slow starts and rash of injuries to start the season. And like you say, it's ALL of them. It's not just the rookies.

But to your point, it's still inexcusable from the players either way.

The second half of that culture is the team having its back against the wall, calling a players-only meeting and playing better afterwards.

I think that culture exists because Kyle's focus is more on game planning (his choice) and administration (esp. this year with all new staff).