Who holds this offense back more?

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I agree with everything you been saying on that play. Word semantics 😂 we can call it dumb if that makes people feel better; especially with our punter not doing much with it anyway

Obviously it's a better result if you pin them against their own endzone, but that's not a guaranteed result... and it's still better to have the ball in scoring position, or just outside of it.

Originally posted by DrEll:
After watching Brock, how can you not say it was Jimmy ? Do you think Jimmy hits Kittle for the wide open pass for a TD in the second half yesterday ? Does he hit Kroft in stride in the 4th quarter ? Does he pick up the 3rd and one with his legs ? Does he not walk out of the end zone for a safety when we were pinned deep instead of finding JJ on the 3rd and 7 ?

Comeon now, let's be real with ourselves…

Yes. That was a pretty easy pass. Give credit to Purdy as he executed it perfectly but it was an easy pitch and catch. Now admittedly Jimmy has missed some gimmes but it was straight forward pass on a brilliant designed play call.

Kroft? That was pretty easy too but again Jimmy has missed a similar throw. I'll give you that though I think he would've.

3rd and 1 and legs? He's done this many times. Like a lot.

It's crazy to me that people will s**t on Jimmy then parade for a guy that pretty much played a Jimmy game as far bring efficient, getting third downs, and ypc. Personally I think they both are/were playing very well. Purdy may be a rookie but he's not playing like it.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I agree with everything you been saying on that play. Word semantics 😂 we can call it dumb if that makes people feel better; especially with our punter not doing much with it anyway

Obviously it's a better result if you pin them against their own endzone, but that's not a guaranteed result... and it's still better to have the ball in scoring position, or just outside of it.

Yup and I'd even argue that it's harder for our Punter to pin them inside the 5 then our offense to get 2 yards.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
no need to be that desperate in the 1st/2nd qtr when the defense has been playing lights out

Not sure how anyone would describe going for it in that situation as desperate. I would argue it's not even overly aggressive. It's just the right call given the field position, down and distance, and opponent. You're not putting your defense in some untenable position if the other team takes the ball over at their 40 yard line, and you're not altering their chances of driving significantly if they take it over at the 25 instead. 15, well exactly 17, yards.

going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by DrEll:
After watching Brock, how can you not say it was Jimmy ? Do you think Jimmy hits Kittle for the wide open pass for a TD in the second half yesterday ? Does he hit Kroft in stride in the 4th quarter ? Does he pick up the 3rd and one with his legs ? Does he not walk out of the end zone for a safety when we were pinned deep instead of finding JJ on the 3rd and 7 ?

Comeon now, let's be real with ourselves…

Yes. That was a pretty easy pass. Give credit to Purdy as he executed it perfectly but it was an easy pitch and catch. Now admittedly Jimmy has missed some gimmes but it was straight forward pass on a brilliant designed play call.

Kroft? That was pretty easy too but again Jimmy has missed a similar throw. I'll give you that though I think he would've.

3rd and 1 and legs? He's done this many times. Like a lot.

It's crazy to me that people will s**t on Jimmy then parade for a guy that pretty much played a Jimmy game as far bring efficient, getting third downs, and ypc. Personally I think they both are/were playing very well. Purdy may be a rookie but he's not playing like it.

But isn't that the point. You have the last pick in the draft rookie playing comparably to a 9 year veteran who's been in the system for 6-7 years now. It's not s**tting on a player when you're stating the obvious…

Originally posted by DrEll:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by DrEll:
After watching Brock, how can you not say it was Jimmy ? Do you think Jimmy hits Kittle for the wide open pass for a TD in the second half yesterday ? Does he hit Kroft in stride in the 4th quarter ? Does he pick up the 3rd and one with his legs ? Does he not walk out of the end zone for a safety when we were pinned deep instead of finding JJ on the 3rd and 7 ?

Comeon now, let's be real with ourselves…

Yes. That was a pretty easy pass. Give credit to Purdy as he executed it perfectly but it was an easy pitch and catch. Now admittedly Jimmy has missed some gimmes but it was straight forward pass on a brilliant designed play call.

Kroft? That was pretty easy too but again Jimmy has missed a similar throw. I'll give you that though I think he would've.

3rd and 1 and legs? He's done this many times. Like a lot.

It's crazy to me that people will s**t on Jimmy then parade for a guy that pretty much played a Jimmy game as far bring efficient, getting third downs, and ypc. Personally I think they both are/were playing very well. Purdy may be a rookie but he's not playing like it.

But isn't that the point. You have the last pick in the draft rookie playing comparably to a 9 year veteran who's been in the system for 6-7 years now. It's not s**tting on a player when you're stating the obvious…

as a fan, you want the best player out there.. Don't attach yourself to pro football players

Originally posted by DrEll:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by DrEll:
After watching Brock, how can you not say it was Jimmy ? Do you think Jimmy hits Kittle for the wide open pass for a TD in the second half yesterday ? Does he hit Kroft in stride in the 4th quarter ? Does he pick up the 3rd and one with his legs ? Does he not walk out of the end zone for a safety when we were pinned deep instead of finding JJ on the 3rd and 7 ?

Comeon now, let's be real with ourselves…

Yes. That was a pretty easy pass. Give credit to Purdy as he executed it perfectly but it was an easy pitch and catch. Now admittedly Jimmy has missed some gimmes but it was straight forward pass on a brilliant designed play call.

Kroft? That was pretty easy too but again Jimmy has missed a similar throw. I'll give you that though I think he would've.

3rd and 1 and legs? He's done this many times. Like a lot.

It's crazy to me that people will s**t on Jimmy then parade for a guy that pretty much played a Jimmy game as far bring efficient, getting third downs, and ypc. Personally I think they both are/were playing very well. Purdy may be a rookie but he's not playing like it.

But isn't that the point. You have the last pick in the draft rookie playing comparably to a 9 year veteran who's been in the system for 6-7 years now. It's not s**tting on a player when you're stating the obvious…

But Purdy IS playing like a 9 year vet. That's a huge compliment to him. Purdy has also outplayed the GOAT, he outplayed Tua and Geno too. He's playing better against good defenses than many good QBs have.

In pretty much every aspect this was a good Jimmy type game imo. CMC being the leading receiver for example, only 2(1-1) air yard passes past the 20, 18 of 26 passes being short YAC routes under 10 yards before catch.

Brock is basically doing what Jimmy is doing. Sure they have their differences and of course Brock has room to grow and more potential while Jimmy isn't getting much better from here but yesterday was very Jimmy-esque. And it works. 9 years or a 7th round nobody it's good football.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Considering I described everything going on in the situation, and plenty of other things that happened later in the game, I think it's pretty obvious I watched it. Love the condescension, lol.

Not steamrolling them on offense, or not putting up points at will, is exactly why you maximize scoring opportunities, or near scoring opportunities. It's easier to gain 2 yards on one play, than it is to drive the length of the field... especially in that environment. The risk, given that we're at their 42 is minimal. The likelihood that our defense forces a punt if we don't get it, is not much different than if we punt and they take over at the 25.

Do they have more hope if it's a one score game, or a two score game?

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Considering I described everything going on in the situation, and plenty of other things that happened later in the game, I think it's pretty obvious I watched it. Love the condescension, lol.

Not steamrolling them on offense, or not putting up points at will, is exactly why you maximize scoring opportunities, or near scoring opportunities. It's easier to gain 2 yards on one play, than it is to drive the length of the field... especially in that environment. The risk, given that we're at their 42 is minimal. The likelihood that our defense forces a punt if we don't get it, is not much different than if we punt and they take over at the 25.

Do they have more hope if it's a one score game, or a two score game?

I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
It's crazy to me that people will s**t on Jimmy then parade for a guy that pretty much played a Jimmy game....

What does it matter now? Good luck to Jimmy on his future endeavors.

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

The decision would be under much more scrutiny had Greenlaw not generated a turnover that we converted into a TD late in the half. Easily could have been a 7-3 or 7-6 game at halftime without that backbreaking turnover.

Shanahan is a great coach. One of the absolute best in the league. He has some warts though, and being conservative to the point it hurts the teams chances to win has been one of them at various times.

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Considering I described everything going on in the situation, and plenty of other things that happened later in the game, I think it's pretty obvious I watched it. Love the condescension, lol.

Not steamrolling them on offense, or not putting up points at will, is exactly why you maximize scoring opportunities, or near scoring opportunities. It's easier to gain 2 yards on one play, than it is to drive the length of the field... especially in that environment. The risk, given that we're at their 42 is minimal. The likelihood that our defense forces a punt if we don't get it, is not much different than if we punt and they take over at the 25.

Do they have more hope if it's a one score game, or a two score game?

I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

the squeeze is not worth the juice here... there is no guarantee we convert. all it does is give them more confidence when the game is way too early still

We're the better team, not them

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Considering I described everything going on in the situation, and plenty of other things that happened later in the game, I think it's pretty obvious I watched it. Love the condescension, lol.

Not steamrolling them on offense, or not putting up points at will, is exactly why you maximize scoring opportunities, or near scoring opportunities. It's easier to gain 2 yards on one play, than it is to drive the length of the field... especially in that environment. The risk, given that we're at their 42 is minimal. The likelihood that our defense forces a punt if we don't get it, is not much different than if we punt and they take over at the 25.

Do they have more hope if it's a one score game, or a two score game?

I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

the squeeze is not worth the juice here... there is no guarantee we convert. all it does is give them more confidence when the game is way too early still

We're the better team, not them

Your both missing the most critical point in the decision/argument.

If your going to punt you don't accept the freaking penalty. That's how you know it was a stupid decision.

It's extremely difficult for a punter to punt on the opposite side of the field and keep it out of the endzone.

It was a dumb decision. Shanahan is not making some next level move by being stupid. Don't kid yourself.

9/10 coaches go for it in that situation and the one that doesn't is likely in the 5 or so that get fired the following year. Even if you decide to not go for it then you definitely don't accept the penalty. That's next level stupid.

Most coaches take a delay of game to try and make some room and burn some clock.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Your both missing the most critical point in the decision/argument.

If your going to punt you don't accept the freaking penalty. That's how you know it was a stupid decision.

It's extremely difficult for a punter to punt on the opposite side of the field and keep it out of the endzone.

It was a dumb decision. Shanahan is not making some next level move by being stupid. Don't kid yourself.

9/10 coaches go for it in that situation and the one that doesn't is likely in the 5 or so that get fired the following year. Even if you decide to not go for it then you definitely don't accept the penalty. That's next level stupid.

Most coaches take a delay of game to try and make some room and burn some clock.

Yep.

Analytics aren't the end all be all, but I would suggest following Computer Cowboy, or 4th down decision bot, on twitter, as a starting point for understanding win probability in this context.

I believe we've been at the bottom for years in this area.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

The answer to this question is and always has been beyond obvious. I'm willing to bet certain people still don't see it though

I mean.. You'd think it would be hard to argue after the past few games but many will sure still try.