Who holds this offense back more?

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Considering I described everything going on in the situation, and plenty of other things that happened later in the game, I think it's pretty obvious I watched it. Love the condescension, lol.

Not steamrolling them on offense, or not putting up points at will, is exactly why you maximize scoring opportunities, or near scoring opportunities. It's easier to gain 2 yards on one play, than it is to drive the length of the field... especially in that environment. The risk, given that we're at their 42 is minimal. The likelihood that our defense forces a punt if we don't get it, is not much different than if we punt and they take over at the 25.

Do they have more hope if it's a one score game, or a two score game?

I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

the squeeze is not worth the juice here... there is no guarantee we convert. all it does is give them more confidence when the game is way too early still

We're the better team, not them

Your both missing the most critical point in the decision/argument.

If your going to punt you don't accept the freaking penalty. That's how you know it was a stupid decision.

It's extremely difficult for a punter to punt on the opposite side of the field and keep it out of the endzone.

It was a dumb decision. Shanahan is not making some next level move by being stupid. Don't kid yourself.

9/10 coaches go for it in that situation and the one that doesn't is likely in the 5 or so that get fired the following year. Even if you decide to not go for it then you definitely don't accept the penalty. That's next level stupid.

Most coaches take a delay of game to try and make some room and burn some clock.

or you might be missing the point.. Brock was trying to get a free play and possibly throw it down field (free play)

we got the jump but the refs stopped the play (A A ron used to do this all the time)

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
going for it is a desperate move, especially when it's not needed.

not sure if you watched the game but we weren't steamrolling them on offense. In no way do you give that team any hope.

The punt resulted them in netting -6 yards and a 3-out

Considering I described everything going on in the situation, and plenty of other things that happened later in the game, I think it's pretty obvious I watched it. Love the condescension, lol.

Not steamrolling them on offense, or not putting up points at will, is exactly why you maximize scoring opportunities, or near scoring opportunities. It's easier to gain 2 yards on one play, than it is to drive the length of the field... especially in that environment. The risk, given that we're at their 42 is minimal. The likelihood that our defense forces a punt if we don't get it, is not much different than if we punt and they take over at the 25.

Do they have more hope if it's a one score game, or a two score game?

I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

the squeeze is not worth the juice here... there is no guarantee we convert. all it does is give them more confidence when the game is way too early still

We're the better team, not them

Your both missing the most critical point in the decision/argument.

If your going to punt you don't accept the freaking penalty. That's how you know it was a stupid decision.

It's extremely difficult for a punter to punt on the opposite side of the field and keep it out of the endzone.

It was a dumb decision. Shanahan is not making some next level move by being stupid. Don't kid yourself.

9/10 coaches go for it in that situation and the one that doesn't is likely in the 5 or so that get fired the following year. Even if you decide to not go for it then you definitely don't accept the penalty. That's next level stupid.

Most coaches take a delay of game to try and make some room and burn some clock.

Thank you. It's why teams will take a delay of game penalty that deep to give their punter more space to cover going downfield. It was clear that after the quarter ended Shanahan's balls shrank big time and he decided not to go for it. At that point the defense had allowed 30 yards of offense total to Seattle. He just caved in a situation where he could put the opposition always early. It's what he does and then you wonder why late in the 4th quarter your featured RB/WR is getting touches late just so the team can hang on to a victory.

it's extremely frustrating to watch him not have any type of situation awareness.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

The decision would be under much more scrutiny had Greenlaw not generated a turnover that we converted into a TD late in the half. Easily could have been a 7-3 or 7-6 game at halftime without that backbreaking turnover.

Shanahan is a great coach. One of the absolute best in the league. He has some warts though, and being conservative to the point it hurts the teams chances to win has been one of them at various times.

yep.

1) goes into a shell way to soon,
2) wastes plays "setting up" his concepts.
3) Takes chapters of the playbook off the table because "he knows his qb's weakness"
4) Feeds his fantasy football stars, doesn't spread it around-- predictable.
5) Comfortable creeping through the red zone, settling for field goals;
6) Lots of run calls don't wear down opponents because of undersize line---what's the point?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
I understand both sides but all of the momentum was ours and even though the defense did its job on the ensuing drive, the momentum slightly tilted in Seattle's direction after us pretty much dominating them. I think it slowed the game down when it could've put Seattle on its heels early.

Or we could've failed and Seattle scores and it's a completely different game... It's really tough to say.

The decision would be under much more scrutiny had Greenlaw not generated a turnover that we converted into a TD late in the half. Easily could have been a 7-3 or 7-6 game at halftime without that backbreaking turnover.

Shanahan is a great coach. One of the absolute best in the league. He has some warts though, and being conservative to the point it hurts the teams chances to win has been one of them at various times.

yep.

1) goes into a shell way to soon,
2) wastes plays "setting up" his concepts.
3) Takes chapters of the playbook off the table because "he knows his qb's weakness"
4) Feeds his fantasy football stars, doesn't spread it around-- predictable.
5) Comfortable creeping through the red zone, settling for field goals;
6) Lots of run calls don't wear down opponents because of undersize line---what's the point?

Not to rehash bad memories, but I remember in the SB right before half we get a big stop on 3rd down against Mahomes (I think it was a sack). Plenty of time left for us to attack. They showed a shot of Lynch in the booth jumping up and down making a T with both hands begging Shanny to call a TO get the ball and score again before the half. What does Kyle do ? Runs out the clock.

what a dick

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
or you might be missing the point.. Brock was trying to get a free play and possibly throw it down field (free play)

we got the jump but the refs stopped the play (A A ron used to do this all the time)

No...

If that was the case he would have lined up for it again and then the prize would have been any of the following: offsides and a first down, free play, or 5 yard penalty which doesn't hurt at all because it gives the punter more room.

He was never going for it and was just being stupid. There's no next level thought going on. Nothing in the realm of smarts or logic can explain it shanahan just straight up made a stupid mistake.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
or you might be missing the point.. Brock was trying to get a free play and possibly throw it down field (free play)

we got the jump but the refs stopped the play (A A ron used to do this all the time)

No...

If that was the case he would have lined up for it again and then the prize would have been any of the following: offsides and a first down, free play, or 5 yard penalty which doesn't hurt at all because it gives the punter more room.

He was never going for it and was just being stupid. There's no next level thought going on. Nothing in the realm of smarts or logic can explain it shanahan just straight up made a stupid mistake.

Lol, yeah trying to get the defense to jump two times in a row

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
or you might be missing the point.. Brock was trying to get a free play and possibly throw it down field (free play)

we got the jump but the refs stopped the play (A A ron used to do this all the time)

No...

If that was the case he would have lined up for it again and then the prize would have been any of the following: offsides and a first down, free play, or 5 yard penalty which doesn't hurt at all because it gives the punter more room.

He was never going for it and was just being stupid. There's no next level thought going on. Nothing in the realm of smarts or logic can explain it shanahan just straight up made a stupid mistake.

Lol, yeah trying to get the defense to jump two times in a row

Sorry dude but you're wrong on this. It's quite obvious that the reason you draw the offsides is to set up a 4th and short. Shanny just decided to squander the opportunity and punt. This isn't one of those 'one offs'. It's well known that Kyle does a loss poor job with game awareness, and I think it's actually been pointed out a few times this year during the broadcast that Kyle does not follow game analytics and relies more on his instinct.

Originally posted by DrEll:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
or you might be missing the point.. Brock was trying to get a free play and possibly throw it down field (free play)

we got the jump but the refs stopped the play (A A ron used to do this all the time)

No...

If that was the case he would have lined up for it again and then the prize would have been any of the following: offsides and a first down, free play, or 5 yard penalty which doesn't hurt at all because it gives the punter more room.

He was never going for it and was just being stupid. There's no next level thought going on. Nothing in the realm of smarts or logic can explain it shanahan just straight up made a stupid mistake.

Lol, yeah trying to get the defense to jump two times in a row

Sorry dude but you're wrong on this. It's quite obvious that the reason you draw the offsides is to set up a 4th and short. Shanny just decided to squander the opportunity and punt. This isn't one of those 'one offs'. It's well known that Kyle does a loss poor job with game awareness, and I think it's actually been pointed out a few times this year during the broadcast that Kyle does not follow game analytics and relies more on his instinct.

If I'm wrong then we would have gone for it on 4-2

we tried the free play and the refs stopped it. Plain and simple

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
If I'm wrong then we would have gone for it on 4-2

we tried the free play and the refs stopped it. Plain and simple

Can you point to a single time in Kyle Shanahan's tenure that we ran a 'free play' in that situation? The goal is to get a cheap five yards.

They line up and the instant a defender crosses into the neutral zone the offense will react (false start) and the play is blown dead.

Free plays don't happen in that situation. They happen organically.

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
Yes. That was a pretty easy pass. Give credit to Purdy as he executed it perfectly but it was an easy pitch and catch. Now admittedly Jimmy has missed some gimmes but it was straight forward pass on a brilliant designed play call.

Kroft? That was pretty easy too but again Jimmy has missed a similar throw. I'll give you that though I think he would've.

3rd and 1 and legs? He's done this many times. Like a lot.

It's crazy to me that people will s**t on Jimmy then parade for a guy that pretty much played a Jimmy game as far bring efficient, getting third downs, and ypc. Personally I think they both are/were playing very well. Purdy may be a rookie but he's not playing like it.

Jimmy 100% takes the primary read to McCaffrey and gets the first down. He never gets to Kittle for the TD.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
If I'm wrong then we would have gone for it on 4-2

we tried the free play and the refs stopped it. Plain and simple

I re-watched the play, and I do think it's at least possible that they may have tried to run a free play. If that was the case, and we don't know that it was, the problem was our RG immediately came out of his stance to point out the offside defender (as is normally done on this play like I explained in my last post), and the play was blown dead as a result. I think it's possible that was a mistake because our C immediately grabbed him like he f**ked up... but no way of knowing for sure.

I also think it's very possible we were going for it, but during the quarter changeover (the penalty ended the 1st, and the punt started the 2nd), Kyle changed his mind. Like the other poster(s) had mentioned, it makes little sense to accept the 5 yard penalty if you're punting.

Regardless of what they were attempting on the 4th and 7, not going for it on 4th and 2 was a *puzzling* decision. Just bad.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Jimmy 100% takes the primary read to McCaffrey and gets the first down. He never gets to Kittle for the TD.

That's my feeling as well.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Your both missing the most critical point in the decision/argument.

If your going to punt you don't accept the freaking penalty. That's how you know it was a stupid decision.

It's extremely difficult for a punter to punt on the opposite side of the field and keep it out of the endzone.

It was a dumb decision. Shanahan is not making some next level move by being stupid. Don't kid yourself.

9/10 coaches go for it in that situation and the one that doesn't is likely in the 5 or so that get fired the following year. Even if you decide to not go for it then you definitely don't accept the penalty. That's next level stupid.

Most coaches take a delay of game to try and make some room and burn some clock.

Excellent point

Originally posted by DrEll:
Not to rehash bad memories, but I remember in the SB right before half we get a big stop on 3rd down against Mahomes (I think it was a sack). Plenty of time left for us to attack. They showed a shot of Lynch in the booth jumping up and down making a T with both hands begging Shanny to call a TO get the ball and score again before the half. What does Kyle do ? Runs out the clock.

what a dick

I think everyone who was rooting for the 49ers was screaming for a timeout; I sure AF was. This surely added fuel to the fire on the whole Kyle doesn't trust Jimmy argument and I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise in that decision. Damnit thanks for rehashing bad memories

What if...

Nothing holds back the O?

What if this is what is supposed to be?

we get conditioned to think gaudy #s like Mahomes, Allen etc - But Kyle never said that is what the goal is.