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Who holds this offense back more?

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Who holds this offense back more?

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Jimmy has plenty of limitations in the passing game but Kyle is solely responsibility for the running game which is not effective enough for all the resources and focus this team has put into it. The epitomy of this was our inability at the goal line late in the 4th qtr.

Elijah Mitchell had a huge gapping hole on the play he slipped on.

Fair but anecdotal and was one play.

All scoring plays are 1 play. When your offense has a dropped TD and lost footing on a perfectly blocked play it hurts the score but we still got the W

End of the day, the running game is not dominating like it should.

We ran the ball 40 times into stacked boxes. It's not the running games fault defenses do not respect our passing game.

I agree but when you have high priced extra blockers like Juice and Kittle staying in line to block with CMC, Mitchell and Deebo as a running threat I expect more against a depleted s**tty Chargers run defense that lost 2 DT in game.
How about a little truth in advertising. Perhaps you should have just called this thread, "I got tired of sh*tting on Jimmy in his own thread so I'll start a new one"
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Jimmy has plenty of limitations in the passing game but Kyle is solely responsibility for the running game which is not effective enough for all the resources and focus this team has put into it. The epitomy of this was our inability at the goal line late in the 4th qtr.

Elijah Mitchell had a huge gapping hole on the play he slipped on.

Fair but anecdotal and was one play.

All scoring plays are 1 play. When your offense has a dropped TD and lost footing on a perfectly blocked play it hurts the score but we still got the W

End of the day, the running game is not dominating like it should.

We ran the ball 40 times into stacked boxes. It's not the running games fault defenses do not respect our passing game.

I agree but when you have high priced extra blockers like Juice and Kittle staying in line to block with CMC, Mitchell and Deebo as a running threat I expect more against a depleted s**tty Chargers run defense that lost 2 DT in game.

DTs aren't what really slow our running game. If DTs could we wouldn't destroy the Rams every single time. Edges and LBers playing disciplined ball do more to stop our run game. Mack put on a show last night Murray and James had great games as well.
Originally posted by 49ers81:
How about a little truth in advertising. Perhaps you should have just called this thread, "I got tired of sh*tting on Jimmy in his own thread so I'll start a new one"

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
We ran the ball 40 times into stacked boxes. It's not the running games fault defenses do not respect our passing game.

This "stacked boxes" stuff is nonsense. That's NEVER an excuse for not being able to run the ball.

Adrian Peterson 2012, Jamal Lewis 2003, Walter Payton 1977, O.J. Simpson 1973, Eric Dickerson 1984, and many others are absolutely falling out of their chairs reading nonsense like this.
Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
We ran the ball 40 times into stacked boxes. It's not the running games fault defenses do not respect our passing game.

This "stacked boxes" stuff is nonsense. That's NEVER an excuse for not being able to run the ball.

Adrian Peterson 2012, Jamal Lewis 2003, Walter Payton 1977, O.J. Simpson 1973, Eric Dickerson 1984, and many others are absolutely falling out of their chairs reading nonsense like this.

3.9 yard per carry is not being able to run the ball. Lol solid first post
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Jimmy has plenty of limitations in the passing game but Kyle is solely responsibility for the running game which is not effective enough for all the resources and focus this team has put into it. The epitomy of this was our inability at the goal line late in the 4th qtr.

Elijah Mitchell had a huge gapping hole on the play he slipped on.

Fair but anecdotal and was one play.

All scoring plays are 1 play. When your offense has a dropped TD and lost footing on a perfectly blocked play it hurts the score but we still got the W

End of the day, the running game is not dominating like it should.

We ran the ball 40 times into stacked boxes. It's not the running games fault defenses do not respect our passing game.

I agree but when you have high priced extra blockers like Juice and Kittle staying in line to block with CMC, Mitchell and Deebo as a running threat I expect more against a depleted s**tty Chargers run defense that lost 2 DT in game.

DTs aren't what really slow our running game. If DTs could we wouldn't destroy the Rams every single time. Edges and LBers playing disciplined ball do more to stop our run game. Mack put on a show last night Murray and James had great games as well.

Parse this point all you want, the Charger run defense is terrible and had multiple injuries. I expect more from our running game.
Is there anyone in this fan base besides me who realizes that the 49ers lack any receivers who can separate from man coverage with actual route running?

I realize football fans don't do logic well, so let me explain something to you that you don't seem to be aware of.

Deebo Samuel didn't make the Pro Bowl last year because he's a great, good, or even average route runner. He made it because he's great after the catch. Period, the end. That's his entire game. He's a running back who catches the ball.

George Kittle is a great blocker and used to be great after the catch (he appears to have lost a step since all the injuries). Those are the things he is/was elite at, not separating from man coverage.

Jimmy isn't limiting the offense. He has been hitting guys on the stuff they're good at, and not on the stuff they're not.

Did you see the needle Jimmy had to thread to complete that 3rd and long to Aiyuk on the comeback? What goes unsaid there is how Aiyuk had ZERO separation on that play.

THAT is why Jimmy hasn't thrown much outside the numbers in his 49ers career. The receivers suck at those routes. Jimmy is excellent at throwing them, but the personnel doesn't fit that.

The best route runner on the team is Jennings, and that's really saying something, considering he's not exactly Isaac Bruce himself.

The passing game looked significantly better in 2019 when Emmanuel Sanders joined the team. That's the last time Jimmy had a guy who could run actual patterns.

All of this "there are so many weapons" crap ignores all of that. The 49ers have redundant niche players. That's not "stacked." Stacked is the 1989-1994 49ers.
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
3.9 yard per carry is not being able to run the ball. Lol solid first post

I can't tell what you're trying to imply here. Do you think 3.9 yards per carry is good?

Compare it to the seasons by the backs I mentioned. Those guys had FAR worse passing games, were the entire focal point of their offenses...yet defenses couldn't stop them.
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TD49ers:
Jimmy has plenty of limitations in the passing game but Kyle is solely responsibility for the running game which is not effective enough for all the resources and focus this team has put into it. The epitomy of this was our inability at the goal line late in the 4th qtr.

Elijah Mitchell had a huge gapping hole on the play he slipped on.

Fair but anecdotal and was one play.

All scoring plays are 1 play. When your offense has a dropped TD and lost footing on a perfectly blocked play it hurts the score but we still got the W

End of the day, the running game is not dominating like it should.

We ran the ball 40 times into stacked boxes. It's not the running games fault defenses do not respect our passing game.

I agree but when you have high priced extra blockers like Juice and Kittle staying in line to block with CMC, Mitchell and Deebo as a running threat I expect more against a depleted s**tty Chargers run defense that lost 2 DT in game.

DTs aren't what really slow our running game. If DTs could we wouldn't destroy the Rams every single time. Edges and LBers playing disciplined ball do more to stop our run game. Mack put on a show last night Murray and James had great games as well.

Parse this point all you want, the Charger run defense is terrible and had multiple injuries. I expect more from our running game.

We almost averaged 4 yards per carry. This is the NFL that's pretty f**king good. I get we invested a lot into CMC but it's still not easy to just run for 250+ yards every game. And CMC knows the playbook but he still has to get used to the timing with his O linemen.
Weird. It almost looks like 100 days ago, the team had meant for a different offense and the 2 most important players weren't with the team
Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
3.9 yard per carry is not being able to run the ball. Lol solid first post

I can't tell what you're trying to imply here. Do you think 3.9 yards per carry is good?

Compare it to the seasons by the backs I mentioned. Those guys had FAR worse passing games, were the entire focal point of their offenses...yet defenses couldn't stop them.

And I'm sure those players had games where they averaged less than 4 yards per carry in the season.
Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
3.9 yard per carry is not being able to run the ball. Lol solid first post

I can't tell what you're trying to imply here. Do you think 3.9 yards per carry is good?

Compare it to the seasons by the backs I mentioned. Those guys had FAR worse passing games, were the entire focal point of their offenses...yet defenses couldn't stop them.

So everyone who doesn't have a season like these Legends are having a bad season?
Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:
So everyone who doesn't have a season like these Legends are having a bad season?

No, the point is that the "stacked boxes are limiting the running game" stuff is pure nonsense.

Most of the great running teams in history faced stacked boxes. If you can't run against stacked boxes, you're not that good at running the ball.

The 49ers rank 20th in yards per carry this year, and 5th in net yards per pass attempt. So really, who's really holding the offense back here?
[ Edited by GetSomeRouteRunners on Nov 14, 2022 at 8:21 AM ]
Originally posted by GetSomeRouteRunners:
Is there anyone in this fan base besides me who realizes that the 49ers lack any receivers who can separate from man coverage with actual route running?

I realize football fans don't do logic well, so let me explain something to you that you don't seem to be aware of.

Deebo Samuel didn't make the Pro Bowl last year because he's a great, good, or even average route runner. He made it because he's great after the catch. Period, the end. That's his entire game. He's a running back who catches the ball.

George Kittle is a great blocker and used to be great after the catch (he appears to have lost a step since all the injuries). Those are the things he is/was elite at, not separating from man coverage.

Jimmy isn't limiting the offense. He has been hitting guys on the stuff they're good at, and not on the stuff they're not.

Did you see the needle Jimmy had to thread to complete that 3rd and long to Aiyuk on the comeback? What goes unsaid there is how Aiyuk had ZERO separation on that play.

THAT is why Jimmy hasn't thrown much outside the numbers in his 49ers career. The receivers suck at those routes. Jimmy is excellent at throwing them, but the personnel doesn't fit that.

The best route runner on the team is Jennings, and that's really saying something, considering he's not exactly Isaac Bruce himself.

The passing game looked significantly better in 2019 when Emmanuel Sanders joined the team. That's the last time Jimmy had a guy who could run actual patterns.

All of this "there are so many weapons" crap ignores all of that. The 49ers have redundant niche players. That's not "stacked." Stacked is the 1989-1994 49ers.

Fair enough - but Aiyuk seperates, but then throttles down for his "zone" route that is called by the HC. They say Shannahan is hard on his receivers to be precise to what he calls - so a lot of this lack of separation is KS design issues - which the rest of the NFL has caught up with. Without McDaniels creativity, KS's bland plays AND play calling are getting exposed.

So it's a bit of both.

I personally think JG is putting the ball deeper with accuracy this year, and is generally pretty darn accurate. BUT he has tendencies we have all seen:
1. He throws late to the outside and deep down the seam usually
2. He throws into the wrong coverage sometimes - but all QBs do occasionally
3. BUT this is the killer - He makes a couple of completely incomprehensible plays a game that often lead to INTs or near INTs in key situations. This is the part the KS loathes - can cost you games - and goes up in probability the more throws he makes in critical situations.
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