week 10 vs LA Chargers Coaches Film Analysis

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
One possibility would be plays that emphasize blocking all the DL and LBs (perhaps with double-teaming) while leaving the DBs unblocked. This would increase the number of short to mid gains while allowing the RB into the secondary and possibly breaks tackles there.

Leaving a DB unblocked isn't a missed block if it's by design. You said missed blocks.

9ers do have runs where they leave guys unblocked. I remember Mostert scoring a TD against the Packers in the NFC title game on one such run.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great stuff. Maiocco noted all last year we had the best 4 minute offense in football (closing out the first half and game). Plus #1 in the RZ last year (a result of that). I think we did really good coming out of the half too. This 'might' be an area Kyle misses McDaniels collaboration?

Yeah, those decisions are tough. I think now that we finally have a really solid pass protection unit, it couldn't hurt to try it out now.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
One possibility would be plays that emphasize blocking all the DL and LBs (perhaps with double-teaming) while leaving the DBs unblocked. This would increase the number of short to mid gains while allowing the RB into the secondary and possibly breaks tackles there.

Leaving a DB unblocked isn't a missed block if it's by design. You said missed blocks.

9ers do have runs where they leave guys unblocked. I remember Mostert scoring a TD against the Packers in the NFC title game on one such run.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
In my opinion, I think a well-timed RPO are a good way to go. Defenses can't sell out to stop Deebo AND CMC.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great stuff and even better eye. Even that first RPO might have won outside on the pass. No doubt the run is where the 2 weeks were focused on.

Panelli showed a few weeks ago how close these explosives are on the screen game too...just a slightly different angle by Banks (example) and it's a long TD.

You need absolute precision by everyone.

Which probably makes it a terrible scheme. When everyone needs to win their assignments, you're going to have a piss poor offensive performance every week. This is probably the main reason a lot of teams don't use the Zone Run scheme. It's way too complicated even when you have the bodies to run it. With the league nerfing the chop block outside the numbers, it really neutered the outside zone run.

?
I'm not sure where this is coming from. Teams that run primarily zone-run are:
KC
CHI
DEN
GB
LA
LA
SF
CAR
PHI
DAL
ATL
DET
NE
MIA
NYJ
SEA
ARI
JAX

Then there's 50/50 kind of teams
BUF
WAS
TB
NYG

The wide-zone has been sweeping through the league again since Kyle was in ATL

I have a real hard time with, "the scheme is too complicated".

jd, it's not good enough to just call it 'zone run scheme'. The 49ers have gone away from being so outside zone dominant to incorporating more inside zone. This is due to more 2 high safety defenses, and five man fronts that are making a comeback. A better breakdown is how many teams still are heavy on outside zone. I don't watch enough other teams to know. I'd also bucket the 49ers into 50/50, but I can't quantify.

Mmm, well most wide-zone runs can get run inside.

Either way any zone-baseed scheme require guys to execute reach blocks, reads of the defense.
Alex Gibbs didn't treat technique in wide-zone and inside zone all that different. Just where is your initial target line.

The issue people are having isn't the target point but the complexity

An outside zone run that results in the RB hitting the B gap (inside) is still an outside zone run. I may have lost context of the discussion above. Anyway, I agree zone blocking isn't some complicated scheme because it's been around for a long time and many teams do it. So it isn't any more complicated than a gap scheme. To dumb it down, I'd say zone scheme takes more chemistry between the OLmen for combo blocks, whereas gap scheme requires bad ass OLmen to dominate their 1v1 blocks.

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Everyone in the world knows Kyle loves to run on first downs. Everyone in the world knows he's going to first try and establish the run. That makes it a bit easier for a DC to guard against.

It's the very reason Lombardi is tracking how we've had more success coming out passing vs. run to set up the pass.

Zig when they think you'll zag.

I've seen games where we come out passing instead of running. To me, it really depends on the chess match between Kyle and the opposing DC on how he wants to attack. That's going to vary.

But what I do wonder about is 4th quarter situations where we have a lead and how Shanahan chooses to manage that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would rather have a negative 3 yards on a 1st down run than an 8 yard sack. But maybe that is just me.

That's fair. Plus the holding penalty is 10 yards. That's stupid brutal. False start. We specialize in both (26 through 9 games).

Holding is called on both run and pass plays and so are false starts.

True. Illegal shifts/motions. Delay of game. Now I'm curious which would get called more. More penalties in run/pass? We'd be an interesting case study given we're as close to 50/50 as it gets.

I think you are just grasping at straws at this point. I am not saying we should run it 100% of the time on first down. Obviously we should be looking for a more balanced attack on 1st down since it is a neutral down as far as run and pass are concerned. I just had no issue with the run heavy gameplan against the worste run defense in the NFL. Did it work out in our favor in the first half? No. But we made up for it in the second half and dominated TOP and out gained the opponent by 150 yards.

Bingo. And be willing to shift if you see how a DC is hyper focused on stopping the run rather than just ride and die with the plan.

Kyle's First Down Run ratio

2022 - 37.8%
2021 - 34.9%
2020 - 28.9%
2019 - 36.0%
2018 - 28.4%
2017 - 27.1%

Kyle is a throw lean on first down and has been his entire tenure as an NFL playcaller

That's 8th most. That makes it still very predictable overall.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-down-pct

No....No it doesn't.

It sure did Sunday. It's no secret Kyle loves to run on first downs esp. when he's got a run centric game plan.

It's almost like they were playing one of the worst run defenses in the league and his defense was playing well enough to allow him to stick with the run. Ground game seem to pick up steam as the game went on. Weird.

What does that have to do with Kyle being more predictable on first downs with his tendency?

3.8ypc even after losing their two IDT. We were lucky to win that one. Made it about as hard as we could on ourselves.

How is doing something 38% of the time being predictable. This year the league spread of running on first ranges from 56% to 22% That's a 34% spread between the most and least. 38% actually puts Kyle's playcalling on first kinda puts him right in the middle of this spread.....16% over the least and 18% under the most.

Everyone in the world knows Kyle loves to run on first downs. Everyone in the world knows he's going to first try and establish the run. That makes it a bit easier for a DC to guard against.

It's the very reason Lombardi is tracking how we've had more success coming out passing vs. run to set up the pass.

Zig when they think you'll zag.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
I really want to see option plays that are essentially a football pick and roll where defenses have to choose whether they take away a CMC run, or a Deebo screen.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Just because NC is riding around on a weird escape goat doesn't mean you have to a conversation with yourself

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would rather have a negative 3 yards on a 1st down run than an 8 yard sack. But maybe that is just me.

That's fair. Plus the holding penalty is 10 yards. That's stupid brutal. False start. We specialize in both (26 through 9 games).

Holding is called on both run and pass plays and so are false starts.

True. Illegal shifts/motions. Delay of game. Now I'm curious which would get called more. More penalties in run/pass? We'd be an interesting case study given we're as close to 50/50 as it gets.

I think you are just grasping at straws at this point. I am not saying we should run it 100% of the time on first down. Obviously we should be looking for a more balanced attack on 1st down since it is a neutral down as far as run and pass are concerned. I just had no issue with the run heavy gameplan against the worste run defense in the NFL. Did it work out in our favor in the first half? No. But we made up for it in the second half and dominated TOP and out gained the opponent by 150 yards.

Bingo. And be willing to shift if you see how a DC is hyper focused on stopping the run rather than just ride and die with the plan.

Kyle's First Down Run ratio

2022 - 37.8%
2021 - 34.9%
2020 - 28.9%
2019 - 36.0%
2018 - 28.4%
2017 - 27.1%

Kyle is a throw lean on first down and has been his entire tenure as an NFL playcaller

That's 8th most. That makes it still very predictable overall.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-down-pct

No....No it doesn't.

It sure did Sunday. It's no secret Kyle loves to run on first downs esp. when he's got a run centric game plan.

It's almost like they were playing one of the worst run defenses in the league and his defense was playing well enough to allow him to stick with the run. Ground game seem to pick up steam as the game went on. Weird.

What does that have to do with Kyle being more predictable on first downs with his tendency?

3.8ypc even after losing their two IDT. We were lucky to win that one. Made it about as hard as we could on ourselves.

How is doing something 38% of the time being predictable. This year the league spread of running on first ranges from 56% to 22% That's a 34% spread between the most and least. 38% actually puts Kyle's playcalling on first kinda puts him right in the middle of this spread.....16% over the least and 18% under the most.

Everyone in the world knows Kyle loves to run on first downs. Everyone in the world knows he's going to first try and establish the run. That makes it a bit easier for a DC to guard against.

It's the very reason Lombardi is tracking how we've had more success coming out passing vs. run to set up the pass.

Zig when they think you'll zag.

Everyone is wrong 62% of the time then.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
I really want to see option plays that are essentially a football pick and roll where defenses have to choose whether they take away a CMC run, or a Deebo screen.

Just because NC is riding around on a weird escape goat doesn't mean you have to a conversation with yourself

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
In my opinion, I think a well-timed RPO are a good way to go. Defenses can't sell out to stop Deebo AND CMC.

I really want to see option plays that are essentially a football pick and roll where defenses have to choose whether they take away a CMC run, or a Deebo screen.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
In my opinion, I think a well-timed RPO are a good way to go. Defenses can't sell out to stop Deebo AND CMC.

I really want to see option plays that are essentially a football pick and roll where defenses have to choose whether they take away a CMC run, or a Deebo screen.

We ran 5 of those this past game.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would rather have a negative 3 yards on a 1st down run than an 8 yard sack. But maybe that is just me.

That's fair. Plus the holding penalty is 10 yards. That's stupid brutal. False start. We specialize in both (26 through 9 games).

Holding is called on both run and pass plays and so are false starts.

True. Illegal shifts/motions. Delay of game. Now I'm curious which would get called more. More penalties in run/pass? We'd be an interesting case study given we're as close to 50/50 as it gets.

I think you are just grasping at straws at this point. I am not saying we should run it 100% of the time on first down. Obviously we should be looking for a more balanced attack on 1st down since it is a neutral down as far as run and pass are concerned. I just had no issue with the run heavy gameplan against the worste run defense in the NFL. Did it work out in our favor in the first half? No. But we made up for it in the second half and dominated TOP and out gained the opponent by 150 yards.

Bingo. And be willing to shift if you see how a DC is hyper focused on stopping the run rather than just ride and die with the plan.

Kyle's First Down Run ratio

2022 - 37.8%
2021 - 34.9%
2020 - 28.9%
2019 - 36.0%
2018 - 28.4%
2017 - 27.1%

Kyle is a throw lean on first down and has been his entire tenure as an NFL playcaller

That's 8th most. That makes it still very predictable overall.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-down-pct

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
In my opinion, I think a well-timed RPO are a good way to go. Defenses can't sell out to stop Deebo AND CMC.

I really want to see option plays that are essentially a football pick and roll where defenses have to choose whether they take away a CMC run, or a Deebo screen.

We ran 5 of those this past game.

How'd they look? IIRC, we just took the run option each time.