week 10 vs LA Chargers Coaches Film Analysis

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I tried to add the receiver dropping the pass before you quoted me.

Haha.

Here, I'm covering the same runs as in the Wayne show but in my normal presentation mode

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here, I'm covering the same runs as in the Wayne show but in my normal presentation mode

Great stuff and even better eye. Even that first RPO might have won outside on the pass. No doubt the run is where the 2 weeks were focused on.

Panelli showed a few weeks ago how close these explosives are on the screen game too...just a slightly different angle by Banks (example) and it's a long TD.

You need absolute precision by everyone.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

We're 2nd in the league in drop rate - does that mean we should stop passing too? I just don't agree that if there's failures in execution but the plays are there to be had you just garbage can them and go try something different. Especially when those plays, are the entire basis of the offense. Are we saying that Kyle should can the wide-zone stuff and become a spread passing team?

We are. And most lost points because of it. My original point is it didn't take long to see what was happening. We have the #1 DVOA passing game even with those drops and added CMC plus Deebo back and everyone is healthy. Pivot to the passing game, soften them up, spread them out with all our weapons, come back to the running game. Add some creativity after 2 weeks off. No need to abandon anything. There's no need to pound your head against a brick wall for 4Q anymore and eek out a W.

I think the reason he doesn't want to go this route is that the pass protection just isn't good enough to go into a game planning to throw a lot. The result of bad pass plays is generally much more detrimental than a bad run play.

Another reason I see for not going more pass heavy despite having more success there, is there being seemingly no answer for a blitz in a lot of the pass plays. Whether that is no hots, not letting Jimmy audible, miscommunication with the route runners, or protection not getting called right, I can't say. A good example from Sunday was the play in the early 2nd quarter where Jimmy tried to scramble on 3rd and 3 and was stopped short. There was an obvious blitz coming, yet no easy option to get the ball out quickly.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

We're 2nd in the league in drop rate - does that mean we should stop passing too? I just don't agree that if there's failures in execution but the plays are there to be had you just garbage can them and go try something different. Especially when those plays, are the entire basis of the offense. Are we saying that Kyle should can the wide-zone stuff and become a spread passing team?

We are. And most lost points because of it. My original point is it didn't take long to see what was happening. We have the #1 DVOA passing game even with those drops and added CMC plus Deebo back and everyone is healthy. Pivot to the passing game, soften them up, spread them out with all our weapons, come back to the running game. Add some creativity after 2 weeks off. No need to abandon anything. There's no need to pound your head against a brick wall for 4Q anymore and eek out a W.

I think the reason he doesn't want to go this route is that the pass protection just isn't good enough to go into a game planning to throw a lot. The result of bad pass plays is generally much more detrimental than a bad run play.

Another reason I see for not going more pass heavy despite having more success there, is there being seemingly no answer for a blitz in a lot of the pass plays. Whether that is no hots, not letting Jimmy audible, miscommunication with the route runners, or protection not getting called right, I can't say. A good example from Sunday was the play in the early 2nd quarter where Jimmy tried to scramble on 3rd and 3 and was stopped short. There was an obvious blitz coming, yet no easy option to get the ball out quickly.

Imagine NC saying this. Hope you're sitting down. LOL.

Our PP is one of the biggest strengths of the team right now. I'll give you a minute to gather yourself. LOL

...OK?

Yes, that's even with MM doing MM things when it matters most.

Also, when our run game fails, it's 2nd and 13. That's worse than an incomplete pass. There's one option for a run. There's 5 on a pass. We shouldn't be scared of a defense taking every single one of these guys out for the entirety of a pass play: CMC, Mitchell, Juice, Kittle, Aiyuk, Jennings and Deebo.

Now, I'm not saying we need to flip philosophy. Kyle will ALWAYS lean run centric. But there's no longer a need to stick with it to that extreme anymore IF it's not getting the results you need (ending in points).

PS: Good points on the potential fails of a play design. Kyle can definitely modify a few things to make it easier/safer in case of breakdowns.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

We're 2nd in the league in drop rate - does that mean we should stop passing too? I just don't agree that if there's failures in execution but the plays are there to be had you just garbage can them and go try something different. Especially when those plays, are the entire basis of the offense. Are we saying that Kyle should can the wide-zone stuff and become a spread passing team?

We are. And most lost points because of it. My original point is it didn't take long to see what was happening. We have the #1 DVOA passing game even with those drops and added CMC plus Deebo back and everyone is healthy. Pivot to the passing game, soften them up, spread them out with all our weapons, come back to the running game. Add some creativity after 2 weeks off. No need to abandon anything. There's no need to pound your head against a brick wall for 4Q anymore and eek out a W.

I think the reason he doesn't want to go this route is that the pass protection just isn't good enough to go into a game planning to throw a lot. The result of bad pass plays is generally much more detrimental than a bad run play.

Another reason I see for not going more pass heavy despite having more success there, is there being seemingly no answer for a blitz in a lot of the pass plays. Whether that is no hots, not letting Jimmy audible, miscommunication with the route runners, or protection not getting called right, I can't say. A good example from Sunday was the play in the early 2nd quarter where Jimmy tried to scramble on 3rd and 3 and was stopped short. There was an obvious blitz coming, yet no easy option to get the ball out quickly.

Imagine NC saying this. Hope you're sitting down. LOL.

Our PP is one of the biggest strengths of the team right now. I'll give you a minute to gather yourself. LOL

...OK?

Yes, that's even with MM doing MM things when it matters most.

Also, when our run game fails, it's 2nd and 13. That's worse than an incomplete pass. There's one option for a run. There's 5 on a pass. We shouldn't be scared of a defense taking every single one of these guys out for the entirety of a pass play: CMC, Mitchell, Juice, Kittle, Aiyuk, Jennings and Deebo.

Now, I'm not saying we need to flip philosophy. Kyle will ALWAYS lean run centric. But there's no longer a need to stick with it to that extreme anymore IF it's not getting the results you need (ending in points).

PS: Good points on the potential fails of a play design. Kyle can definitely modify a few things to make it easier/safer in case of breakdowns.

By what metrics is our pass blocking a strength? FO has both our run blocking and pass blocking as slightly above average. PFF grades I just can't get behind.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
By what metrics is our pass blocking a strength? FO has both our run blocking and pass blocking as slightly above average. PFF grades I just can't get behind.

Totally understand. Not my favorite either when evaluating the OL. But the splits between the two can give you an idea. Also, DVOA can help show that too. At least, you can say one is stronger than the other.

That gap has narrowed since CMC joined and Mitchell is a stud but the issues of an intricate run game extends far beyond the OL just doing their job. When it hits, it's a beautiful thing. When it doesn't, it puts you behind the 8 ball esp. early because not many run more early as much as Kyle. That makes it even harder to execute.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

And passes can be dropped, passes can be off target, passes can be deflected, wide open players not targeted for different reasons etc.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

And passes can be dropped, passes can be off target, passes can be deflected, wide open players not targeted for different reasons etc.

Oh and they are. LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great stuff and even better eye. Even that first RPO might have won outside on the pass. No doubt the run is where the 2 weeks were focused on.

Panelli showed a few weeks ago how close these explosives are on the screen game too...just a slightly different angle by Banks (example) and it's a long TD.

You need absolute precision by everyone.

Which probably makes it a terrible scheme. When everyone needs to win their assignments, you're going to have a piss poor offensive performance every week. This is probably the main reason a lot of teams don't use the Zone Run scheme. It's way too complicated even when you have the bodies to run it. With the league nerfing the chop block outside the numbers, it really neutered the outside zone run.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great stuff and even better eye. Even that first RPO might have won outside on the pass. No doubt the run is where the 2 weeks were focused on.

Panelli showed a few weeks ago how close these explosives are on the screen game too...just a slightly different angle by Banks (example) and it's a long TD.

You need absolute precision by everyone.

Which probably makes it a terrible scheme. When everyone needs to win their assignments, you're going to have a piss poor offensive performance every week. This is probably the main reason a lot of teams don't use the Zone Run scheme. It's way too complicated even when you have the bodies to run it. With the league nerfing the chop block outside the numbers, it really neutered the outside zone run.

I totally forgot about that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

And passes can be dropped, passes can be off target, passes can be deflected, wide open players not targeted for different reasons etc.

Oh and they are. LOL

Glad you agree then that there is no superior philosophy and one philosophy isn't simpler or have less risk.

Let's not push false narratives, we need to be best.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Execution has been one of my biggest pet peeves this season. Do you think it is just a lack of focus by the players? Do you think it is a coaching point and can be fixed by such?

Difficult question to answer. Finding the right combination of coaches and players can be difficult, and we've had quite a bit of turnover in both departments. It's not unreasonable to think we may have a chemistry hiccup somewhere along line.

but I agree wholeheartedly. We rarely have a drive with perfect execution. Penalties, drops, missed blocks, bad QB reads, silly playcalls etc… at least one gaff per drive.

and then when we do have great execution, we mess up the extra point or give up a 50 yard kickoff return.

it can be aggravating 🤣🤣

Exactly this.

"It's just kind of a hodgepodge of stuff every week. ~ Kurt Warner

I was hoping by now, esp. after a bye-week, and full health, much of this would be cleaned up. Not yet. If the goal is Championship football, all of this needs to be cleaned up by the 4Q or it'll cost us again. These same issues cost us in both the Superbowl and NFCCG loss too.

We can't ever expect perfection but the theme of "shooting ourselves in the foot" remains AND we've yet to play one complete game with all three phases.

That's on the entire coaching staff, IMHO.

And the coaching staff saw a TON of turnover. I just want the team peaking at the right time. Ravens fans thought their team was cooked in both 2000 and 2012 with all their in-season stuff. The 2011 Giants were almost kept from the playoffs until Tom Coughlins now famous, "I love you guys" speech that turned their last 4 games and playoff run around. Peak at the right time.

It certainly did. My biggest concern coming into the season from an administrative perspective, was a full blown burnout from Kyle who tries to do everything. He had about 10 days of rest after a long post season run and then immediately had to hire and start training an entire new coaching staff. He's aged about 10 years so far.

He is still hanging in there tough and his team is currently in playoff contention.

He is! Many would have folded by now. You gotta respect the hustle and grind. Nobody works harder than him. If anything, I wish he had more help so he could pivot to more of the HC stuff.

And the pattern continues...

Here's where NC flips on you and all of a sudden you don't know s**t….until you provide some data that he likes then you are amazing and he's all about you 🤣

Excellent work as always JD

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
Be it a run or pass play, you are always one missed assignment/one players failed execution away from the playcall being unsuccessful.

One philosophy (pass to set up run vs run to set up pass) isn't easier to execute or comes with less risk of failure.

Not necessarily. A WR can win 1on1 or find a zone hole and that's that unless you're talking about PP and the guys blocking for him post catch for maximum YAC.

And passes can be dropped, passes can be off target, passes can be deflected, wide open players not targeted for different reasons etc.

Oh and they are. LOL

Glad you agree then that there is no superior philosophy and one philosophy isn't simpler or have less risk.

Let's not push false narratives, we need to be best.

Balance is. And that's usually what Kyle strives for. We say run centric (compared to the rest of the league which is pass centric) but it's pretty close in the end.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Execution has been one of my biggest pet peeves this season. Do you think it is just a lack of focus by the players? Do you think it is a coaching point and can be fixed by such?

Difficult question to answer. Finding the right combination of coaches and players can be difficult, and we've had quite a bit of turnover in both departments. It's not unreasonable to think we may have a chemistry hiccup somewhere along line.

but I agree wholeheartedly. We rarely have a drive with perfect execution. Penalties, drops, missed blocks, bad QB reads, silly playcalls etc… at least one gaff per drive.

and then when we do have great execution, we mess up the extra point or give up a 50 yard kickoff return.

it can be aggravating 🤣🤣

Exactly this.

"It's just kind of a hodgepodge of stuff every week. ~ Kurt Warner

I was hoping by now, esp. after a bye-week, and full health, much of this would be cleaned up. Not yet. If the goal is Championship football, all of this needs to be cleaned up by the 4Q or it'll cost us again. These same issues cost us in both the Superbowl and NFCCG loss too.

We can't ever expect perfection but the theme of "shooting ourselves in the foot" remains AND we've yet to play one complete game with all three phases.

That's on the entire coaching staff, IMHO.

And the coaching staff saw a TON of turnover. I just want the team peaking at the right time. Ravens fans thought their team was cooked in both 2000 and 2012 with all their in-season stuff. The 2011 Giants were almost kept from the playoffs until Tom Coughlins now famous, "I love you guys" speech that turned their last 4 games and playoff run around. Peak at the right time.

It certainly did. My biggest concern coming into the season from an administrative perspective, was a full blown burnout from Kyle who tries to do everything. He had about 10 days of rest after a long post season run and then immediately had to hire and start training an entire new coaching staff. He's aged about 10 years so far.

He is still hanging in there tough and his team is currently in playoff contention.

He is! Many would have folded by now. You gotta respect the hustle and grind. Nobody works harder than him. If anything, I wish he had more help so he could pivot to more of the HC stuff.

And the pattern continues...

Here's where NC flips on you and all of a sudden you don't know s**t….until you provide some data that he likes then you are amazing and he's all about you 🤣

Excellent work as always JD

LOL. OK weirdo.