Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Joe was the best QB in football, and even with that Joe made mistakes. Joe was Human, a very lucky human....but human.
I say lucky for the very reason you pointed out. His perfect Super Bowl record. Joe threw a game ending interceptions in both the Cincy Superbowls that were soft throws that hit the defenders right between the numbers...only to be dropped. Those passes looked like they would be picked 9 out of 10 times. Late game as they were, the 49ers where dangerously close to loosing the big game, because of a Joe Montana mistake.
Not to mention when we talk about Joe and Steve....we are really talking about Jerry Rice. This is the guy who makes this whole thing a conversation. There is pre-Jerry offense and their is post Jerry offense.
When you say /impeccable timing and calm under pressure.......that was not always the case.
Let's look at the Playoffs
81-84
2168 yards 7.8 YPA 17tds 11ints
It was in this era that Walsh thought Joe (Who flirted with a 5% interception ratio) needed to be changed and tried to trade for John Elway.
85-87
503 yards 5.7 YPA 0tds 4 ints
When we look at the first 6 years of Joe Montana's 9 years in the playoffs with the 49ers we are talking about a guy with 17 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.
The 49ers had some insane teams, and some of the best defenses the 49ers have ever seen.....but....Joe could be Hot or Joe could be Cold.
In 86 Jerry really started to become the Jerry Rice we remember, and from 88 and beyond he dominated the post season. Jerry Rice is why we remember Joe Cool, and why we stick Steve Young in these all time QB lists.
In 88 Craig went off, and the ground game flourished. Craig went from a 200 carry a season HB/FB to a 300 carry a season back.
88-90
2088 yards 9 YPA 22tds 2 ints
When people talk about Joe Cool, or "fundamentally perfect" they are mostly remembering this 3 year span... the Jerry Rice version of Joe Montana. They (and you) are right. Montana and that offense was near perfect in those years. It was Transcendent.
It really is not that different when people remember Tom Brady as the best ever. Maybe he is, but damn....he had ALOT of help. Just like Joe had a lot of help. Neither are perfect, both made a lot of mistakes along the way and both got pretty darn lucky to become the legends they are.
You love Joe, I love Joe....we all love Joe. I am not nocking the guy, just saying he was not always perfect..... people that said he was a system QB are not really wrong. He was a system QB. I don't think you could drop Joe on any team and the NFL would remember him the way it does.
That dropped interception in the 2nd Bengals SB wasn't going to be game losing. There was plenty of game left. It just would've made it tougher. Esiason might have thrown a pick 6 on the next possession for all anyone knows, so you can't play that game. Part of the pressure of the SB is seizing those opportunities, and Lewis Billups couldn't do it. Having a career 127.8 passer rating across the 4 biggest games of your career isn't lucky. Some people choke under pressure. Most everyone else finds a way to calm their nerves enough to perform. Very, very few actually elevate their games in those situations, and Montana had that ability, maybe more so than anyone in NFL history.
fair enough,
Joe had a career 127.8 superbowl passer rating....
and
Steve Young had a 134.8 superbowl passer rating....
Heck...
Phil Simms has a 150.9 superbowl passer rating...
My point in that is let's not give Joe and Steve all the credit for Jerry Rice.
Joe Montana has a 112.6 passer rating in superbowls without Jerry Rice
As I am sure we all recall, Steve Young went 3 and out against the Chargers when Jerry was on the sidelines.
At some point every season, there is a make or break game...it could be the final game of the playoffs, it could be the superbowl. The point is there is pressure. No doubt Joe rises to the occasion in the superbowl, just like Steve did.
But
So does Jerry Rice.....