49ers sign DT Javon Hargrave

Clements was extremely overrated and they made him the highest paid corner in the league

I really dont think Hargrave played much differently than he has played in Philly or Pittsburgh. Not as great this season save the Rams game going against bums on that OL. People just thought that high sack total in one season hes had in Philly was the norm, when it clearly wasn't.

It's like those who thought Floyd was having a 15+ sack season here. The expectations some of our fans have, without actually watching players play, often are based on looking at statsheet and wishful thinking. Football isnt baseball or even basketball.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Hargrave, overpaid but had a solid year as a pass rusher last year.

He did. If you grade Hargrave based on the position he played in the 49ers' scheme(2i nose tackle), Hargrave was an elite pass rushing nose tackle last season. But fans won't factor that in because they don't understand scheme. I don't think there was another base nose in the NFL that had more sacks than Hargrave.

The real problem is he was paid to be a game-wrecking IDL, not a nose tackle. Not to mention that he's been a sketchy run defender at the quintessential run defending position in the front. The whole fit has been weird from the jump. I think he would've been fine if they simply put him at 3technique from the start, but they had a logjam with Armstead last season and put Collins there this season, which makes you wonder why they signed him in the first place.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Hargrave, overpaid but had a solid year as a pass rusher last year.

He did. If you grade Hargrave based on the position he played in the 49ers' scheme(2i nose tackle), Hargrave was an elite pass rushing nose tackle last season. But fans won't factor that in because they don't understand scheme. I don't think there was another base nose in the NFL that had more sacks than Hargrave.

The real problem is he was paid to be a game-wrecking IDL, not a nose tackle. Not to mention that he's been a sketchy run defender at the quintessential run defending position in the front. The whole fit has been weird from the jump. I think he would've been fine if they simply put him at 3technique from the start, but they had a logjam with Armstead last season and put Collins there this season, which makes you wonder why they signed him in the first place.

Whose playing him out of position on the DL coach?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Hargrave, overpaid but had a solid year as a pass rusher last year.

He did. If you grade Hargrave based on the position he played in the 49ers' scheme(2i nose tackle), Hargrave was an elite pass rushing nose tackle last season. But fans won't factor that in because they don't understand scheme. I don't think there was another base nose in the NFL that had more sacks than Hargrave.

The real problem is he was paid to be a game-wrecking IDL, not a nose tackle. Not to mention that he's been a sketchy run defender at the quintessential run defending position in the front. The whole fit has been weird from the jump. I think he would've been fine if they simply put him at 3technique from the start, but they had a logjam with Armstead last season and put Collins there this season, which makes you wonder why they signed him in the first place.

Does scheme include stopping the run.

Had a good year? No one on the front 4 had a good year last year. This guy is lazy and over rated.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Hargrave, overpaid but had a solid year as a pass rusher last year.

He did. If you grade Hargrave based on the position he played in the 49ers' scheme(2i nose tackle), Hargrave was an elite pass rushing nose tackle last season. But fans won't factor that in because they don't understand scheme. I don't think there was another base nose in the NFL that had more sacks than Hargrave.

The real problem is he was paid to be a game-wrecking IDL, not a nose tackle. Not to mention that he's been a sketchy run defender at the quintessential run defending position in the front. The whole fit has been weird from the jump. I think he would've been fine if they simply put him at 3technique from the start, but they had a logjam with Armstead last season and put Collins there this season, which makes you wonder why they signed him in the first place.

I think they assumed the skill at one was worth the sacrifice of an another area. We are now seeing the ramifications on a larger level. I doubt even when Davis gets back that he'll make it thru the season. We desperately need to draft some big dawgs instead of doing band-aid solutions.

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Hargrave, overpaid but had a solid year as a pass rusher last year.

He did. If you grade Hargrave based on the position he played in the 49ers' scheme(2i nose tackle), Hargrave was an elite pass rushing nose tackle last season. But fans won't factor that in because they don't understand scheme. I don't think there was another base nose in the NFL that had more sacks than Hargrave.

The real problem is he was paid to be a game-wrecking IDL, not a nose tackle. Not to mention that he's been a sketchy run defender at the quintessential run defending position in the front. The whole fit has been weird from the jump. I think he would've been fine if they simply put him at 3technique from the start, but they had a logjam with Armstead last season and put Collins there this season, which makes you wonder why they signed him in the first place.

Does scheme include stopping the run.

Had a good year? No one on the front 4 had a good year last year. This guy is lazy and over rated.

Originally posted by bigpete50:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Maybe he doesn't fit into the Niners scheme. Maybe the eagles had better talent around him. In any case a suspect D line just got weaker.

I'm not convinced he ever fit in in SF… is Evan Anderson still on the team? We need a big boy anchoring the middle!

He was a beast for the Eagles, but then again, their entire DL was beasting that particular season. I think they had 3 DL finish the season with 11 sacks.

AA doing some witchcraft on us lol

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
AA doing some witchcraft on us lol

You mean DeForest Buckner. The D-tackle position hasn't exactly been great since he left.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
AA doing some witchcraft on us lol

You mean DeForest Buckner. The D-tackle position hasn't exactly been great since he left.

50/50

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Double team rate pass rushing as a defensive tackle (x) by pass rush win rate as a defensive tackle (y).

(ESPN Analytics / NFL Next Gen Stats) pic.twitter.com/RuSlk7N7In

— Seth Walder (@SethWalder) September 26, 2024

Why do our pass rush wins not look like other teams pass rush wins?

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Double team rate pass rushing as a defensive tackle (x) by pass rush win rate as a defensive tackle (y).

(ESPN Analytics / NFL Next Gen Stats) pic.twitter.com/RuSlk7N7In

— Seth Walder (@SethWalder) September 26, 2024

Why do our pass rush wins not look like other teams pass rush wins?

Decieving chart. Collins is high on that list as well.

Jets sucked in their first game against us, went against rams third string o line as well. The chart doesn't show elite pass rushers, it shows who's played the weakest o lines so far.

bottom five defense in the league for a reason. We've never had a great defensive backfield, and this year we don't have a good linebacker core either. D line use you mask those issues…. Now it doesn't.

replacement DT isn't going to be able to do much worse than who we've had at there

Looks like Givens yesterday had more push into the pocket than JH. Can't comment on run stop though.

I don't notice much difference with him gone. Looked the same or better in the middle. Which doesn't surprise me. He was under performing.