Lynch and Shanny are extended. Your thoughts?

Originally posted by joeknows:
The point is that people can't have it both ways - if Trey was very badly judged, then Brock was very well judged.

If Brock was simply 'lucky', then the Trey move was also unlucky.

I don't like the widespread attribution of blame in the former without the recognition of achievement in the latter.

You really can. You expect a team to hit on a guy when they used three first round picks on them. Its an awful look if you miss you out on someone that you invested so heavily in,

Purdy was a flyer, they weren't even sure they were going to draft him at all but Griese and Slowik managed to convince them to pull the trigger in the late 7th. If they had even a slight inkling that Purdy could be this good, they would have drafted him a lot sooner. They absolutely got lucky as hell because had they let him go to UDFA, he might have very well signed with some other team and now they'd be more or less screwed, hoping to trade for Cousins or some other vet.

Lance failing was less about luck and more about poor evaluation. You went all in on a kid with 300 college passing attempts in an offense that didn't ask him to pass the ball a lot or even really play from behind much, one year's worth of games with a lot of mechanical issues that didn't necessarily make him a good fit for this style of offense.

It was a strange pick then, now it just looks like a really bad one.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You really can. You expect a team to hit on a guy when they used three first round picks on them. Its an awful look if you miss you out on someone that you invested so heavily in,

Purdy was a flyer, they weren't even sure they were going to draft him at all but Griese and Slowik managed to convince them to pull the trigger in the late 7th. If they had even a slight inkling that Purdy could be this good, they would have drafted him a lot sooner. They absolutely got lucky as hell because had they let him go to UDFA, he might have very well signed with some other team and now they'd be more or less screwed, hoping to trade for Cousins or some other vet.

Lance failing was less about luck and more about poor evaluation. You went all in on a kid with 300 college passing attempts in an offense that didn't ask him to pass the ball a lot or even really play from behind much, one year's worth of games with a lot of mechanical issues that didn't necessarily make him a good fit for this style of offense. It was a strange pick then, now it just looks like a really bad one.

1000%, I'll never understand it. It's water under the bridge at this point, it is what it is. I'm not mad about it - but we need to call it what it is. This admin (Kyle, John & co) has done a really great job building an overall team. Excellent job. They've simultaneously done a horrific job attacking the qb position and finding the right guy. It's strange but it's the reality.

we lucked into Brock but were smart enough to hold onto him once we really saw him in person. I give the team credit for that. They were smart enough to quickly move off of Lance when they realized it was a big miss. I give them credit for that.

but we got really lucky with Brock, which I'm very happy about. Without Brock, this is a disaster and we are starting darnold, most likely. Maybe still giving Lance a chance but I don't think they keep trying that because they were really unhappy with him as a player.

Getting lucky is part of football. So idc, I don't hold it against anyone. I think the pats got lucky with Brady. I'll take 1/7th of their success. Lol

Originally posted by alwayssecond:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Let's just take a look at Lynch/Shanahan's mistakes vs hits

Mistakes:

Solomon Thomas at 3 in 2017
I'd say Foster but Saban lied to the 49ers brass, and no one expected him to be a headache
Trey Lance trade
Kinlaw pick/DeFo trade
Malcolm Smith signing (nitpicking here)
Witherspoon pick (nitpicking here)
Sermon Pick
Joe Williams pick

Hits:

Good Picks:

Bosa
Deebo
Kittle
Warner
Aiyuk
Hufanga
Dre
Lenoir
Bell (Looks like a steal)
Moody (Looks like a great pick)
Wishnowsky (Good pick whether ppl agree or not with me)
Banks
Burford
DJ Jones (Hated losing him, but we have Hargrave now, we upgraded over DJ & DeFo)
Purdy

Others:

Trent trade
CMC trade
Ward signing
Hargrave signing
Juice signing

Letting Laken walk
Letting McGlinchey walk

Those are off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more mistakes I'm forgetting, but more hits than misses.

very good post, but lance trade is the worst in franchise history, and you forgot hurd, pettis and forgetting about great dbs (james, fitzpatrick) in the draft

also, shouldnt put bell or moody like hits yet

overall good job by them, but not great or perfect by any means.

Yeah I forgot Pettis & Hurd, I have a bad memory due to meds I take.

I think Bell & Moody are hits as of now, but we'll see in 3yrs how well they are.

Agreed, no one is perfect though or great, some GMs out there ppl loved like Ballard the Colts fans hate, Broncos fans hate Paton want him fired.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You really can. You expect a team to hit on a guy when they used three first round picks on them. Its an awful look if you miss you out on someone that you invested so heavily in,

Purdy was a flyer, they weren't even sure they were going to draft him at all but Griese and Slowik managed to convince them to pull the trigger in the late 7th. If they had even a slight inkling that Purdy could be this good, they would have drafted him a lot sooner. They absolutely got lucky as hell because had they let him go to UDFA, he might have very well signed with some other team and now they'd be more or less screwed, hoping to trade for Cousins or some other vet.

Lance failing was less about luck and more about poor evaluation. You went all in on a kid with 300 college passing attempts in an offense that didn't ask him to pass the ball a lot or even really play from behind much, one year's worth of games with a lot of mechanical issues that didn't necessarily make him a good fit for this style of offense.

It was a strange pick then, now it just looks like a really bad one.

Kyle wanted his josh allen type that he could mold, it was bold and it failed. They took a shot, i dont have a problem with it.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by joeknows:
The point is that people can't have it both ways - if Trey was very badly judged, then Brock was very well judged.

If Brock was simply 'lucky', then the Trey move was also unlucky.

I don't like the widespread attribution of blame in the former without the recognition of achievement in the latter.

If the 49ers really thought Purdy was this great QB they wouldn't have waited till the 7th round to take him. Kyle loves overdrafting players he loves (see CJ Beathard).

They gamble. They win. It is what it is.

Still makes me laugh that people even bring up Joe Williams. Practically every team misses on a 3rd-5th round pick every year, yet somehow Joe Williams being a bad 4th round pick in 2017 is some measuring stick for Lynch and Shanahan.

Williams was 121st overall. In the 1979 draft Walsh, in his first draft, picked RB Jerry Aldridge in the 5th, 119th overall. The guy never took a single handoff in the NFL, either, yet nobody cares. You cannot have a more similar situation - position, draft status, experience of drafting leadership, results. All essentially identical. Yet one is some supposed referendum and another probably hasn't even been a thought in a 49er fans' mind for 40 years.

Originally posted by captveg:
Still makes me laugh that people even bring up Joe Williams. Practically every team misses on a 3rd-5th round pick every year, yet somehow Joe Williams being a bad 4th round pick in 2017 is some measuring stick for Lynch and Shanahan.

Williams was 121st overall. In the 1979 draft Walsh, in his first draft, picked RB Jerry Aldridge in the 5th, 119th overall. The guy never took a single handoff in the NFL, either, yet nobody cares. You cannot have a more similar situation - position, draft status, experience of drafting leadership, results. All essentially identical. Yet one is some supposed referendum and another probably hasn't even been a thought in a 49er fans' mind for 40 years.

only low iq fans are still upset about joe williams

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Kyle wanted his josh allen type that he could mold, it was bold and it failed. They took a shot, i dont have a problem with it.

Exactly.
Jimmy was injured prone, Stafford went to the Rams, Watson is creepy, the Packers didn't want to trade Rodgers, they wanted a QB on a rookie contract.
Josh Allen destroyed the Niners a few months before. Kyle wanted his Josh Allen.
They drafted Lance, they failed so be it.
I was all in on Justin Fields that year and I thought that Mac Jones and Trey Lance could be great prospects too. I'm not looking super smart right now, isn't it?
Now using three first round picks was the mistake. If they were fine with either Trey or Mac, just wait for the day of the draft. They could have drafted Mac at 12.

As for the Purdy discussion, yes they were lucky and yes if they knew who he really was, they would have drafted him in the second round and not Drake.
But Steve Slowik talked about Purdy being a really good prospect to John Lynch one year before already according to John.
It's not like they didn't know him. They scouted him.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by captveg:
Still makes me laugh that people even bring up Joe Williams. Practically every team misses on a 3rd-5th round pick every year, yet somehow Joe Williams being a bad 4th round pick in 2017 is some measuring stick for Lynch and Shanahan.

Williams was 121st overall. In the 1979 draft Walsh, in his first draft, picked RB Jerry Aldridge in the 5th, 119th overall. The guy never took a single handoff in the NFL, either, yet nobody cares. You cannot have a more similar situation - position, draft status, experience of drafting leadership, results. All essentially identical. Yet one is some supposed referendum and another probably hasn't even been a thought in a 49er fans' mind for 40 years.

only low iq fans are still upset about joe williams

There's just other more reasonable con arguments. Like, why hold on to keeping THAT on your list of negatives? It's so dumb.

Originally posted by captveg:
Still makes me laugh that people even bring up Joe Williams. Practically every team misses on a 3rd-5th round pick every year, yet somehow Joe Williams being a bad 4th round pick in 2017 is some measuring stick for Lynch and Shanahan.

Williams was 121st overall. In the 1979 draft Walsh, in his first draft, picked RB Jerry Aldridge in the 5th, 119th overall. The guy never took a single handoff in the NFL, either, yet nobody cares. You cannot have a more similar situation - position, draft status, experience of drafting leadership, results. All essentially identical. Yet one is some supposed referendum and another probably hasn't even been a thought in a 49er fans' mind for 40 years.

It's the same with Jalen Hurd.
Hurd was really good in training camp and pre-season and he would have been part of the YAC team.
Not Shanahan 's fault Hurd was injury prone.
And we're talking about a third rounder seriously.

This franchise is ranked as 6th most valuable in the world. $6b plus. The franchise takes over other stadiums. The franchise has a nice international following. Things like Trey Lance have nothing to do with the bottom line and the bottom line is this regime has built a team that people want to watch and other franchises might be envious of. They have built a team valued at $6B.

This is mostly due to John and Kyle. They deserve a big piece of the $6B pie. Numbers not known but I bet both are now the highest paid at their positions regardless of SB wins.

Then mix in the fact we are getting close to taking the mountain top and you have every reason to extend them. A lot more went into this than a SB win or failed draft picks. Money is pouring in.

Originally posted by captveg:
Still makes me laugh that people even bring up Joe Williams. Practically every team misses on a 3rd-5th round pick every year, yet somehow Joe Williams being a bad 4th round pick in 2017 is some measuring stick for Lynch and Shanahan.

Williams was 121st overall. In the 1979 draft Walsh, in his first draft, picked RB Jerry Aldridge in the 5th, 119th overall. The guy never took a single handoff in the NFL, either, yet nobody cares. You cannot have a more similar situation - position, draft status, experience of drafting leadership, results. All essentially identical. Yet one is some supposed referendum and another probably hasn't even been a thought in a 49er fans' mind for 40 years.

I''ll raise you one Trey Sermon

1. Originally posted by Jcool:
   

   Originally posted by tankle104:
   

   Originally posted by SLCNiner:
   

   Originally posted by 49ersRing:
   Is there a longer tenured GM/HC pair in the league right now that haven't won a SB?

   
   Sean McDermott, and Brandon Beane. Maybe the same tenure, though.

   
   I was about to say this. I believe they started in 2017, as well.
   
   this is different here though, this place was a dumpster fire. Talentless and horrible all around. we've built this place up from the ground up and have endured record amount of injuries along the way. Not everything has been perfect but if you look at where we started and where we are - it's special and I'm glad to have been apart of it. I want a super bowl as much as anyone but I also understand how luck plays a major factor too.

   
   Before McDermott got to Buffalo they hadn't made the playoffs since 1999 & hasn't won a playoff game since 1995. .

Very true, but Buffalo while in a playoff drought was never a laughing stock. We had an embarrassment of coaches and multiple worst or near worst in the league seasons.

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by eric_anthony:
It is a little premature to do this right now. What was the rush? Why not wait until after the season ends?

What should they wait for?

Jed extends now and they win the Super Bowl in the next year or two, it'll look like 2 bargain contracts. Jed waits for them to win it all and then extends them, you are gonna pay them both top dollar. Jed is betting on himself that he picked the 2 right men to lead this organization. I'd say that is a pretty safe and sound bet as it stands currently.

Yup. Smart move by Jed.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
I disagree. Mistakes like that will kill this franchise. We just haven't seen it yet. Because of the draft errors and Lance mistake we have missed out on one or two superbowls during this superbowl window. We are one or two injuries away from being a sub .500 team.

I remember the niners royally screwing up draft after draft in the early to mid 90s. Nobody cared because they were still winning. Then it happened. Steve Young got concussed and the team went into shambles. These mistakes will catch up. The stars are aging. The young guys are mediocre with the exception of bosa.

To the bolded : so are the Chiefs, Eagles, Cowboys or any team that looks like a potential contender.

To the underlined, that's a walking contradiction. You can't cite draft errors in the same breath as saying had we not drafted Lance we would have won a SB. Because you are ignoring the fact that we could have made draft errors there too with those picks.

There is also a chance that those Lance picks could have turned into picking prospects who suffer from dumb luck with said draftees being injury prone. Or maybe they take a little longer to develop and don't give you instant impact.

Fact is, there are no guarantees in football and we all know opinions are not facts.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

1. Originally posted by Jcool:
   

   Originally posted by tankle104:
   

   Originally posted by SLCNiner:
   

   Originally posted by 49ersRing:
   Is there a longer tenured GM/HC pair in the league right now that haven't won a SB?

   
   Sean McDermott, and Brandon Beane. Maybe the same tenure, though.

   
   I was about to say this. I believe they started in 2017, as well.
   
   this is different here though, this place was a dumpster fire. Talentless and horrible all around. we've built this place up from the ground up and have endured record amount of injuries along the way. Not everything has been perfect but if you look at where we started and where we are - it's special and I'm glad to have been apart of it. I want a super bowl as much as anyone but I also understand how luck plays a major factor too.

   
   Before McDermott got to Buffalo they hadn't made the playoffs since 1999 & hasn't won a playoff game since 1995. .

Very true, but Buffalo while in a playoff drought was never a laughing stock. We had an embarrassment of coaches and multiple worst or near worst in the league seasons.

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by eric_anthony:
It is a little premature to do this right now. What was the rush? Why not wait until after the season ends?

What should they wait for?

Jed extends now and they win the Super Bowl in the next year or two, it'll look like 2 bargain contracts. Jed waits for them to win it all and then extends them, you are gonna pay them both top dollar. Jed is betting on himself that he picked the 2 right men to lead this organization. I'd say that is a pretty safe and sound bet as it stands currently.

Yup. Smart move by Jed.

Buffalos roster was actually very good before McDermott, or at least they had some really good players in all phases. I think one of their best teams was Allen's rookie year (outside of a dynamic receiver), they had arguably the best roster in the nfl (offense, defense, and ST). The team was talented but not put together, very similar to harbaugh taking over from Singletary and turning it around - the team was talented but not used properly.

I could be mixing up his rookie and second year, but it was one or both of those years where they had a really solid team, minus a top receiver.