Our 2022/23 Draft Classes: Worried Yet?

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

I think the logic makes sense at our deepest positions, LB, WR, Running back, and so on.

Where that logic doesn't make sense is at corner. We're desperate for cornerbacks, and solid 3rd-5th round pick corner could start on this team immediately.

I think that's a very fair point. I was extremely upset at the time that we only spent one pick on CB and ZERO on OL. I was begging for an OL to challenge Burford and/or McKivitz, and we got squat. We badly needed competition at NCB more than even outside CB. I wanted at least two CB. We took only one, and not a nickel. Who is our backup nickel right now? Is it really wise to be using our only other decent outside corner as our backup nickel? That type of contingency planning comes off of as very, very poor.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

Most of those guys didn't recieve significant snaps with us year 1.

Jennings, McKivitz, Hufanga barely played, Burford split snaps, Lenoir and Purdy only got playing time because of injury.

Rounds 3-7 are guys you generally have to develop, so not sure why we're lamenting the 2023 draft class not contributing right away when they probably weren't picked to.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

Most of those guys didn't recieve significant snaps with us year 1.

Jennings, McKivitz, Hufanga barely played, Burford split snaps, Lenoir and Purdy only got playing time because of injury.

Rounds 3-7 are guys you generally have to develop, so not sure why we're lamenting the 2023 draft class not contributing right away when they probably weren't picked to.

One of the points was to emphasize that despite all these depth picks, our quality of depth is still astoundingly poor in some critical spots.

Our offensive line and secondary has been thin for years now, and we haven't devoted nearly enough resources to fortify those areas. I won't complain too much about WR, but we also still don't seem to have a high-quality #3 who can adequately fill the shoes of our #2.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

Most of those guys didn't recieve significant snaps with us year 1.

Jennings, McKivitz, Hufanga barely played, Burford split snaps, Lenoir and Purdy only got playing time because of injury.

Rounds 3-7 are guys you generally have to develop, so not sure why we're lamenting the 2023 draft class not contributing right away when they probably weren't picked to.

One of the points was to emphasize that despite all these depth picks, our quality of depth is still astoundingly poor in some critical spots.

Our offensive line and secondary has been thin for years now, and we haven't devoted nearly enough resources to fortify those areas.

I think every team has areas they struggle to draft and for us it's OL and CB. I'm not sure it's a resource thing either, but for whatever reason CB's and OL just don't hit with us. We've paid $$$ to Sherm and Ward but failed to land a CB in the draft to go on the other side.

That's also the salary cap in action. Having to let go of guys like Tomlinson, Moseley, Glinch, Brunskill etc because of bigger contracts to other players.

Our OL is currently depth guys trying to be starters so no surprise we're struggling there.

Yes, very worried. If Brown is below average or average this draft class is awful (barring Luter Jr being a stud)

This FO has shown for a while now that they don't like to take BPA players in the draft, but rather do very isolated "we like this guy" picks that they are willing to and give up additional capital for and reach for .
This "we like this guy" philosophy has mostly failed.

Couple it with the redshirt policy, where more emphasis is placed on knowing the system than talent that can step in right away, and there's a problem where talent stream is at best delayed, and at worst it's wasted picks in an environment where the team has to get meaningful contributors.

I mean, OK, no one expects linebackers to start when theres Greenlaw and Warner. But offensive line is below average when Trent doesn't play, and he is over 35.
Slot CB is now a question mark, the only corner they got in the draft was an outside press guy...in the fifth.

This team was good at finding gems in the later rounds when it had holes. Now that the roster is fairly well off, their complementary player draft picks just aren't working out. Making luxury picks like a kicker in the third instead of areas of problematic depth/talent, is also baffling.

Time to make some changes in our scouting staff.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by okdkid:
Outside of Moody — who else would be expected to be active regularly? This team is loaded. LB doesn't need that many roster spots on game day. Bell has been active most (every?) games. Luter and Beal are not season ending - they just have better people in front of them (both are late round picks - not sure what you'd reasonably expect). Few players in the NFL would play over our safety combo - let alone a late 3rd round rookie. Latu May be the only obvious miss.

Im not saying they're great or anything. I just don't know what you'd expect considering their pedigree vs the pedigree of the people across this roster in the first two months of their first season.

I'm not griping that we were planning ahead. That's something you need to to do. And truthfully, I actually like a lot of the guys we took as longer term development prospects.

My major criticism is that we didn't put nearly enough focus on our areas of greatest opportunity to compete or contribute: OL and CB. For the life of me, I cannot understand how we could justify two backup tight ends and two linebackers as priorities over offensive line and corner.

We guaranteed Burford and McKivitz starting jobs and then drafted no one to push them and never even held a competition. As good as we've been most of the time, we still occasionally have some totally baffling decisions like this.

If I remember correctly our first pick was in the 3rd round so I'm not as surprised. Moody can be good if he shakes off his nerves. Brown looked good in camp but has disappeared. The rest seem destined for the practice squad. Horrible draft class by any measure (so far).

Originally posted by bigpete50:
Time to make some changes in our scouting staff.

We'll ask for pointers when we meet up with old Trent B

way too soon for the '23 class... basically all of them except for Moody is buried on the depth chart/ IR-redshirt
(although Latu sure looked like a bust in August)

2022:

Drake Jackson --- trending toward bust
Ty Davis Price -- too soon, not even Elijah Mitchell is getting snaps behind CMC
Danny Gray -- trending toward bust
Spencer Burford -- average starter, could still improve
Samuel Womack -- we'll see very soon
Nick Zakelj -- too soon
Kalia Davis -- too soon, but feels like we could use him now
Tariq Castro Fields -- plays for WAS/ so a bust for us
... and finally:
Brock Purdy -- if the rest of the '22 class is bust, it doesn't matter because we landed a franchise QB

honestly the biggest bust of the '22 and '23 draft class was Trey Lance

WELL, THANKS to B-ROCK, my personal grade on the draft is no more than a C- ...

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

Most of those guys didn't recieve significant snaps with us year 1.

Jennings, McKivitz, Hufanga barely played, Burford split snaps, Lenoir and Purdy only got playing time because of injury.

Rounds 3-7 are guys you generally have to develop, so not sure why we're lamenting the 2023 draft class not contributing right away when they probably weren't picked to.

One of the points was to emphasize that despite all these depth picks, our quality of depth is still astoundingly poor in some critical spots.

Our offensive line and secondary has been thin for years now, and we haven't devoted nearly enough resources to fortify those areas.

I think every team has areas they struggle to draft and for us it's OL and CB. I'm not sure it's a resource thing either, but for whatever reason CB's and OL just don't hit with us. We've paid $$$ to Sherm and Ward but failed to land a CB in the draft to go on the other side.

That's also the salary cap in action. Having to let go of guys like Tomlinson, Moseley, Glinch, Brunskill etc because of bigger contracts to other players.

Our OL is currently depth guys trying to be starters so no surprise we're struggling there.

I dunno, man, I mean let's look at it this way..

This regime has NEVER drafted a corner or safety higher than the third round. That's 7 drafts without any real attempt at a top flight defensive back. At some point, it becomes hard to not call it an oversight to some extent.

As for OL, some might say, "Oh well at least we spent a couple top two picks on linemen" but when you go back and look.. It was only out of absolute necessity because we had no one there, or a hole was guaranteed coming open like with Tomlinson leaving. We have never drafted a top quality OL to legitimately compete with the incumbent. I don't think there's any excuse for that.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

Most of those guys didn't recieve significant snaps with us year 1.

Jennings, McKivitz, Hufanga barely played, Burford split snaps, Lenoir and Purdy only got playing time because of injury.

Rounds 3-7 are guys you generally have to develop, so not sure why we're lamenting the 2023 draft class not contributing right away when they probably weren't picked to.

One of the points was to emphasize that despite all these depth picks, our quality of depth is still astoundingly poor in some critical spots.

Our offensive line and secondary has been thin for years now, and we haven't devoted nearly enough resources to fortify those areas.

I think every team has areas they struggle to draft and for us it's OL and CB. I'm not sure it's a resource thing either, but for whatever reason CB's and OL just don't hit with us. We've paid $$$ to Sherm and Ward but failed to land a CB in the draft to go on the other side.

That's also the salary cap in action. Having to let go of guys like Tomlinson, Moseley, Glinch, Brunskill etc because of bigger contracts to other players.

Our OL is currently depth guys trying to be starters so no surprise we're struggling there.

I dunno, man, I mean let's look at it this way..

This regime has NEVER drafted a corner or safety higher than the third round. That's 7 drafts without any real attempt at a top flight defensive back. At some point, it becomes hard to not call it an oversight to some extent.

As for OL, some might say, "Oh well at least we spent a couple top two picks on linemen" but when you go back and look.. It was only out of absolute necessity because we had no one there, or a hole was guaranteed coming open like with Tomlinson leaving. We have never drafted a top quality OL to legitimately compete with the incumbent. I don't think there's any excuse for that.

I think the FO have shown what they're about in these positions. They went out and paid Sherm, went out and paid Ward. They have drafted a lot of CB's from round 3 onwards expecting one to hit - and it hasn't so far. Largely we rely on the DL to mask our secondary.

OL is the same. I think this was the first year we haven't drafted an OL. Sometimes we've drafted multiple. We pay our LT, hope to get by on the rest.

At this point we're pretty much talking about quantity vs quality, but although we haven't tried to hit on a top prospect I think we've thrown enough picks at the positions to even accidentally get something better than what we're seeing.

Not having high picks the last 2 years definitely hasn't helped and that's contributed to what we're seeing now.

Not sure on the solution. Targeting the wrong players? Coaching? Philosophy?

We just can't seem to even accidentally hit on these positions and even when it looks like we might (Moseley) they get hit by injury.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

I'm not worried, Brown wasn't gonna start right away, Gipson was the FS and is the FS, Moody will bounce back. The rest were drafted as depth, it sucks Latu got hurt, can't say for sure that Beal & Luter are out for season, we'll see what happens, still 9 weeks left, plus playoffs, this is a SB roster whether or not ppl see it, or agree, but that's my opinion, and by most pundits we have one of, if not, the best roster in the NFL, we just need to better execute. Some players were never gonna play on offense or defense, like Bell, Winters, Graham unless injuries, even Beal & Luter likely would have been inactives or ST players. Just is what it is when you have such a loaded roster that we have, so many big name big salary players, these 3rd-7th rd picks were never gonna unseat anyone, but again just my opinion.

With all due respect, AB, I have to strongly disagree. And I don't know why people keep saying this. It's like everyone forgot where some of our biggest stars and other starters were selected.

Purdy - 7th and last overall
Warner - 3rd
Kittle - 5th
Lenoir - 5th
Hufanga - 5th
Greenlaw - 5th
Burks - 3rd (GB)
Ch. Ward - undrafted (DAL)
Gipson - undrafted (CLE)
Hargrave - 3rd (PIT)
Burford - 4th
McKivitz - 5th
Jennings - 7th

There are countless other examples on other teams too. Where we are picking is really no excuse, IMO.

Most of those guys didn't recieve significant snaps with us year 1.

Jennings, McKivitz, Hufanga barely played, Burford split snaps, Lenoir and Purdy only got playing time because of injury.

Rounds 3-7 are guys you generally have to develop, so not sure why we're lamenting the 2023 draft class not contributing right away when they probably weren't picked to.

One of the points was to emphasize that despite all these depth picks, our quality of depth is still astoundingly poor in some critical spots.

Our offensive line and secondary has been thin for years now, and we haven't devoted nearly enough resources to fortify those areas.

I think every team has areas they struggle to draft and for us it's OL and CB. I'm not sure it's a resource thing either, but for whatever reason CB's and OL just don't hit with us. We've paid $$$ to Sherm and Ward but failed to land a CB in the draft to go on the other side.

That's also the salary cap in action. Having to let go of guys like Tomlinson, Moseley, Glinch, Brunskill etc because of bigger contracts to other players.

Our OL is currently depth guys trying to be starters so no surprise we're struggling there.

I dunno, man, I mean let's look at it this way..

This regime has NEVER drafted a corner or safety higher than the third round. That's 7 drafts without any real attempt at a top flight defensive back. At some point, it becomes hard to not call it an oversight to some extent.

As for OL, some might say, "Oh well at least we spent a couple top two picks on linemen" but when you go back and look.. It was only out of absolute necessity because we had no one there, or a hole was guaranteed coming open like with Tomlinson leaving. We have never drafted a top quality OL to legitimately compete with the incumbent. I don't think there's any excuse for that.

I think the FO have shown what they're about in these positions. They went out and paid Sherm, went out and paid Ward. They have drafted a lot of CB's from round 3 onwards expecting one to hit - and it hasn't so far. Largely we rely on the DL to mask our secondary.

OL is the same. I think this was the first year we haven't drafted an OL. Sometimes we've drafted multiple. We pay our LT, hope to get by on the rest.

At this point we're pretty much talking about quantity vs quality, but although we haven't tried to hit on a top prospect I think we've thrown enough picks at the positions to even accidentally get something better than what we're seeing.

Not having high picks the last 2 years definitely hasn't helped and that's contributed to what we're seeing now.

Not sure on the solution. Targeting the wrong players? Coaching? Philosophy?

We just can't seem to even accidentally hit on these positions and even when it looks like we might (Moseley) they get hit by injury.

I think the bolded is it. Their philosophy is a belief that the odds are better using more picks spread at lower tiers in the draft than sacrificing any picks for higher quality prospects.

When it hasn't worked for a while, I think it's time to reevaluate.

I get that strategy when the draft is deep everywhere, but when we have major needs at areas that aren't deep in the draft, those are the times you need to use those resources to seek quality over quantity.

Brock Purdy is one of the best draft finds of all time. So that'll make up for some misses.

Aside from Purdy, I am still optimistic on Drake Jackson. DL is tough to put up solid games week in and week out. Especially when you're fighting for snaps. He's flashed some real talent. Said the same thing about Arik Armstead in his 2nd and 3rd years. It takes time. Not sure he'll ever be a star player, but still has a chance to be a starter.

Spencer Burfurd has contributed a lot, but only for lack of real competition. I'm not writing him off yet. But I'm pretty sure he'll get some legit competition in the offseason. Womack as well could turn into a player. The rest of 2022 is a bust. Really disappointed that Ty Davis Price hasn't found a way to get snaps. RBs usually contribute early.

For 2023, who knows. I guess we got a kicker. Not super impressed with him so far. But he is a rookie and deserves the same level of patience that most rookies get. He's hit a couple long ones already. Delivering under pressure is something he still needs to prove though.

I like Ronnie Bell. Could be something there. Who knows about the rest though. We'll see.

We need a good 2024 draft though. A future franchise LT and solid CB are must haves.

Imho an inch does make a difference when it comes to blocked vision (you can actually see on game days that Purdy's got problems with this as is) and the argument that starters can be found in the later rounds is results-oriented thinking. Arguing that the best oliner in the draft came in the 4th round is like arguing you're gonna find George Kittle in the 5th or a HoF QB in the 6th.

What they are obviously trying to do, is draft players who have a chance of making the team. It's quite pointless to draft players of whom you think that they'd have a hard time making the team because I'm pretty sure that they'd rather have a backup oliner than a rookie practice squad tight end on IR. All of this year's draft picks are still with the team.

The real problem for the oline's and cornerback position's lack of depth was the worst trade in NFL history. Because what these units are lacking isn't backups it's (at least) one above average starter: C, RG or RT and RCB or Nickel. These are the positions where backups are starting or playing out of position.