KS Scheme only talk please

Originally posted by 9moon:
do you NOT understand the point? ur NOT serious... are YOU??

Explain it

Originally posted by ritz126:
i would argue our early drafting is pretty good maybe slightly above average

we don't have one of the most talented rosters because of bad drafting

Agreed. Draft choices come with a huge amount of hype and any subsequent disappointment gets held passionately against the GM and the team. Here are a few random articles about the draft being a lottery:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-pick-bust-rate-remains-very-high

https://theriotreport.com/more-than-50-of-first-round-picks-are-busts-and-other-terrifying-draft-statistics/

https://www.marca.com/en/nfl/2023/04/17/643d97a3e2704e07198b461f.html

https://www.4for4.com/2019/preseason/analyzing-bust-rates-early-round-picks-part-one

And that is just a few, there are plenty more. Drafting is DIFFICULT, people. But there are various issues. A lot of people rush to condemn Lynch when a high draft pick fails. Rarely do I see any comparison though with other teams' drafting. Our high drafting is at least as good, and probably better than most. One point to be born in mind is that, of late, we are generally drafting late, and another point is that when you have a strong roster it is so much more difficult for a rookie to break in. Which increases the apparent failure rate.

Lynch and Shanahan built this roster up from virtually nothing. I mean, Hoyer as a starting qb! And it is now recognised by all except real haters as one of the most consistently strong rosters in the NFL. How did they do that?

If and when you read through some of the articles about drafting, you are welcomed to hazard a guess on the following point. It isn't about the high draft picks which so disappoint some of our posters. The question is, how are Lynch and the FO so good with the lower picks? Inexplicable to me but inarguable. Look at those 5th rounders. What other team has results like that?

Maybe Webbie should rename DWR The Draft Lottery?

Any supporter who was behind the team in 2017 ought not to need reminding. God we were grim! Only the dark years of 2004 and 2005 bear comparison, since 1978/9. We were 2 and 14 in 2016. And we lose 3 games so far this year and
some posters call for Shanahan to be sacked!

22% isn't above average for 1st round picks. 9 1st round picks. 2 on the roster. Seattle, NE, and even Dallas have drafted better than that in recent memory. And I did give them credit for their late round picks. Without those guys, Lynch/Shanny WOULD be gone.

Trent Baalke and the front office's ineptitude at building on the roster that Scotty McCloughan left has no bearing on how Shanny and Lynch have struggled with their high picks. Yeah, they are better than they were, but it took the braintrust 3 short years to destroy Scotty's team.

Originally posted by deepniner:
I'm not qualified enough to speak about KS's scheme.
However, I'll admit that watching the games, it's disappointing to see his inability to diversify his attacks. He gets very myopic with his usage of a single player within a game and across games till that player is observed sufficiently by the opponents and negates their element of surprise or capabilities because they're targeted. Only then he moves on from that player. Deebo a few years ago, or CMC this, and last year are perfect examples of that.
Furthermore, he doesn't understand the tendencies of his team or how well they're performing on a type of play during a game, and change from that. For example, everyone knows that he'll be running up the middle at the end to close the game, even if they're underperforming on that play throughout the game or during the ending drive on earlier down. He doesn't even attempt to sway away from that to get the first down on third downs to close the game.
I believe if he continues to be so obstinate or is incapable of being flexible, the team will likely never win the SB consistently.

You gotta remember the game within the game. Shanahan needs to hold back on some things that he will use in the playoffs.

Originally posted by TopDogBerkeley:
You gotta remember the game within the game. Shanahan needs to hold back on some things that he will use in the playoffs.

The problem I have with that is the late-game collapses. The TB game is a prime example of not putting a team away. A major issue with him. 27-7 in the 4th quarter, TB has 3 opportunities in the red zone late while the 49ers had one 1st down in the 4th quarter. 3 punts and a turnover on downs. Special teams got in the act as well giving up the 51 yard punt return. Yeah, the defense came through, but a good team, which TB doesn't really qualify as, would have taken advantage of our sudden ineptitude.

And I don't need to remind everyone of similar late-game problems. In the playoffs.

Originally posted by Unca_Chuck:
22% isn't above average for 1st round picks. 9 1st round picks. 2 on the roster. Seattle, NE, and even Dallas have drafted better than that in recent memory. And I did give them credit for their late round picks. Without those guys, Lynch/Shanny WOULD be gone.

Trent Baalke and the front office's ineptitude at building on the roster that Scotty McCloughan left has no bearing on how Shanny and Lynch have struggled with their high picks. Yeah, they are better than they were, but it took the braintrust 3 short years to destroy Scotty's team.

Really? Picking three teams that have done better in the 1st is not evidence that we are or aren't above average.

You keep on about the 1st round. I am more interested in the development of the entire team. I don't care if the improvements come through the 1st, 2nd or 7th round, UDFA's or trades.

Kyle's scheme?

Stop the run. You win.

Don't stop the run. Kyle wins.

Simple.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Unca_Chuck:
22% isn't above average for 1st round picks. 9 1st round picks. 2 on the roster. Seattle, NE, and even Dallas have drafted better than that in recent memory. And I did give them credit for their late round picks. Without those guys, Lynch/Shanny WOULD be gone.

Trent Baalke and the front office's ineptitude at building on the roster that Scotty McCloughan left has no bearing on how Shanny and Lynch have struggled with their high picks. Yeah, they are better than they were, but it took the braintrust 3 short years to destroy Scotty's team.

Really? Picking three teams that have done better in the 1st is not evidence that we are or aren't above average.

You keep on about the 1st round. I am more interested in the development of the entire team. I don't care if the improvements come through the 1st, 2nd or 7th round, UDFA's or trades.

AA lot of people have legitimate complaints about how we draft that has nothing to do with whether or not the player works out. The biggest problem is that we use high rounds to select Gadget or Boutique players that Kyle indulges himself with, and don't draft bread and butter lineman with good numbers or good technique. That's the biggest problem it's a self-inflicted wound. We also seem to get bagged a lot on medical issues that it seems we should be vetting better. And then, there's the trey lance disaster which is an unmitigated bungle possibly the worst draft move in terms of AV in the last few decades. The Raiders didn't trade up when they drafted JaMarcus Russell. We sacrificed a lot to get somebody who ultimately proved to be meaningless and useless for our scheme. That's a spectacular bungle and people are correct and right to call out the front office on it. Holding someone accountable isn't as important as fixing the problems that led to it. Even if that means putting Shanny further down the the internal pecking order in draft say so

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle's scheme?

Stop the run. You win.

Don't stop the run. Kyle wins.

Simple.

To a certain extent, I agree. But Brock's passing talent may force a slight scheme adjustment, nonetheless. Having said that, the complimentary football of *keep away on offense and take away on defense* won't change too much even if you have Mahomes playing as a 49er QB.

Feliciano is a big guy (325 lbs according to Wiki) and that's pretty big for a Kyle offensive lineman on the right side. Banks and Trent are already 320+ each. I think the increase in offensive lineman size is related to Brock's passing talents forcing Kyle to get a bit more vertical with his offense instead of the more horizontal boot passes to the TE. The Outside Zone run will still be a major part of the Kyle Shanahan offense - but with some tweaks to take advantage of Brock's developing long ball skills.

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Kyle's scheme wasn't figured out in those losses. The D wasn't getting stops so the O couldn't get anything going. Poor field position and playing from behind aren't part of a winning formula.

Agreed. We lose games because of basic stuff: dumbass penalties on both sides of the ball, missing field goals, 0-blitzing Cousins with 7 secs before halftime etc.

Kyle's offense is fine.

Agree. I'll just add tha Feliciano replacing Burford and whalla, the offense starts clicking. So it's more players problem than a scheme problem in my opinion.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Unca_Chuck:
22% isn't above average for 1st round picks. 9 1st round picks. 2 on the roster. Seattle, NE, and even Dallas have drafted better than that in recent memory. And I did give them credit for their late round picks. Without those guys, Lynch/Shanny WOULD be gone.

Trent Baalke and the front office's ineptitude at building on the roster that Scotty McCloughan left has no bearing on how Shanny and Lynch have struggled with their high picks. Yeah, they are better than they were, but it took the braintrust 3 short years to destroy Scotty's team.

Really? Picking three teams that have done better in the 1st is not evidence that we are or aren't above average.

You keep on about the 1st round. I am more interested in the development of the entire team. I don't care if the improvements come through the 1st, 2nd or 7th round, UDFA's or trades.

AA lot of people have legitimate complaints about how we draft that has nothing to do with whether or not the player works out. The biggest problem is that we use high rounds to select Gadget or Boutique players that Kyle indulges himself with, and don't draft bread and butter lineman with good numbers or good technique. That's the biggest problem it's a self-inflicted wound. We also seem to get bagged a lot on medical issues that it seems we should be vetting better. And then, there's the trey lance disaster which is an unmitigated bungle possibly the worst draft move in terms of AV in the last few decades. The Raiders didn't trade up when they drafted JaMarcus Russell. We sacrificed a lot to get somebody who ultimately proved to be meaningless and useless for our scheme. That's a spectacular bungle and people are correct and right to call out the front office on it. Holding someone accountable isn't as important as fixing the problems that led to it. Even if that means putting Shanny further down the the internal pecking order in draft say so

Mmm. Yep. I repeat the last two lines of my previous. Or to put it another way, Purdy makes up for Lance.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Kyle's scheme wasn't figured out in those losses. The D wasn't getting stops so the O couldn't get anything going. Poor field position and playing from behind aren't part of a winning formula.

Agreed. We lose games because of basic stuff: dumbass penalties on both sides of the ball, missing field goals, 0-blitzing Cousins with 7 secs before halftime etc.

Kyle's offense is fine.

Agree. I'll just add tha Feliciano replacing Burford and whalla, the offense starts clicking. So it's more players problem than a scheme problem in my opinion.

You are over simplifying sir

Originally posted by Dirtydonedirtcheap69:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Kyle's scheme wasn't figured out in those losses. The D wasn't getting stops so the O couldn't get anything going. Poor field position and playing from behind aren't part of a winning formula.

Agreed. We lose games because of basic stuff: dumbass penalties on both sides of the ball, missing field goals, 0-blitzing Cousins with 7 secs before halftime etc.

Kyle's offense is fine.

Agree. I'll just add tha Feliciano replacing Burford and whalla, the offense starts clicking. So it's more players problem than a scheme problem in my opinion.

You are over simplifying sir

Football isn't rocket science sir.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree. I'll just add tha Feliciano replacing Burford and whalla, the offense starts clicking. So it's more players problem than a scheme problem in my opinion.

Voila not Whalla.

Designed checkdown....

Cmc open in the middle .

Balls of steel Purdy throws deep to b Aiyuk instead.


Hey , if you are accurate and feeling it, shoot.

Defense was just about down and out there .

WINNER WINNER TURKEY DINNER