KS Scheme only talk please

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
With Kyles scheme becoming the league standard what will defensive coordinators scheme to attack it? Does it have any agreed upon weaknesses or is it roster specific etc? I know with WCO defenses went lighter and faster to mitigate the timing and short pass stuff back in the day. I wonder what the thinking is on that today?

I think the current counter to Kyle's scheme is the Cover0 look that Brian Flores made popular. He took that scheme to MIN last season. I'll link a couple articles later.

One aspect of Kyle's scheme that stands out is the high usage of formations that have both outside WRs in reduced splits. This compacts the formation and brings many players, offense and defense, near the LoS and near the box. The Flores scheme takes advantage of this by first crowding the LoS to discourage the run game. In the passing game, they send the 4th pass rusher from unexpected positions. It could be a slot CB, a LB that usually doesn't rush, even an outside CB is in play because, due to the reduced splits, that outside CBs are close to the box. Force hot throws that don't go downfield.

BAL KC and now SEA has adopted a similar defensive scheme.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
With Kyles scheme becoming the league standard what will defensive coordinators scheme to attack it? Does it have any agreed upon weaknesses or is it roster specific etc? I know with WCO defenses went lighter and faster to mitigate the timing and short pass stuff back in the day. I wonder what the thinking is on that today?

Every offensive tactic or style eventually gets figured out to some extent. Kyle's offense is based on his father's which dates back to the 90s. He's made adjustment to counter some of the new rules that make it easier to pass but he still likes a strong running game. Mike Shanahan designed his offnese around the Bill Walsh offense.

Offenses and defenses are always evolving to counter what each other is doing. Who knows what the next innovation will be but you can be sure there will be one both on offense and defense.

I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Originally posted by thl408:
I think the current counter to Kyle's scheme is the Cover0 look that Brian Flores made popular. He took that scheme to MIN last season. I'll link a couple articles later.

One aspect of Kyle's scheme that stands out is the high usage of formations that have both outside WRs in reduced splits. This compacts the formation and brings many players, offense and defense, near the LoS and near the box. The Flores scheme takes advantage of this by first crowding the LoS to discourage the run game. In the passing game, they send the 4th pass rusher from unexpected positions. It could be a slot CB, a LB that usually doesn't rush, even an outside CB is in play because, due to the reduced splits, that outside CBs are close to the box. Force hot throws that don't go downfield.

BAL KC and now SEA has adopted a similar defensive scheme.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Do any of you guys remember the Green Bay packers, under Vince Lombardi? They ran a power sweep to perfection. Lombardi didn't care if the defense knew it was coming or not. The team practiced that play so much that they ran it to perfection and dared a defense to stop it. Diversity in the offense is a matter of how well the team runs the plays called. When every player does his part to perfection, it will be a successful play. If they don't, the odds are it won't get the yardage it was designed to get. Kyle's offense is so precise that the timing of each players action is coordinated to create an opening that will be available for just a second or two. With a QB like Brock, who processes so quickly, the offense can really disrupt the defenses game plan. Brock will continue to improve as he gets more playing time and this offense will continue to dominate on a regular basis. let's go Niners!

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

I think (and usually I'm wrong ) that the counter is already there, It's called the outside zone run. If teams basically do the fire zone blitz and pattern matching zone coverages with simulated pressures - those are all pretty much pass defensive concepts. Just run the damn ball! I.e. Kyle's patented Outside zone run - we've come full circle again from 2019. Maybe.

I think that may be why they've doubled down on agile OLinemen like Puni and Kingston etc...

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

I think (and usually I'm wrong ) that the counter is already there, It's called the outside zone run. If teams basically do the fire zone blitz and pattern matching zone coverages with simulated pressures - those are all pretty much pass defensive concepts. Just run the damn ball! I.e. Kyle's patented Outside zone run - we've come full circle again from 2019. Maybe.

I think that may be why they've doubled down on agile OLinemen like Puni and Kingston etc...

Sim pressures are more likely to be used on '3rd & pass it' downs because, like you said, it'd be susceptible to run plays since dropping down linemen into short zone coverage is going to screw with run fits. This is just a guess on my part.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

I think (and usually I'm wrong ) that the counter is already there, It's called the outside zone run. If teams basically do the fire zone blitz and pattern matching zone coverages with simulated pressures - those are all pretty much pass defensive concepts. Just run the damn ball! I.e. Kyle's patented Outside zone run - we've come full circle again from 2019. Maybe.

I think that may be why they've doubled down on agile OLinemen like Puni and Kingston etc...

Sim pressures are more likely to be used on '3rd & pass it' downs because, like you said, it'd be susceptible to run plays since dropping down linemen into short zone coverage is going to screw with run fits. This is just a guess on my part.

Great point! Which leads me to a really dumb question. If you were running the 49ers defense, would your overall philosophy be (1) stop the run first - which is the traditional defensive approach or (2) stop the pass first, and basically run blitz on run downs, with the idea of stopping the run *second?*

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

I think (and usually I'm wrong ) that the counter is already there, It's called the outside zone run. If teams basically do the fire zone blitz and pattern matching zone coverages with simulated pressures - those are all pretty much pass defensive concepts. Just run the damn ball! I.e. Kyle's patented Outside zone run - we've come full circle again from 2019. Maybe.

I think that may be why they've doubled down on agile OLinemen like Puni and Kingston etc...

Sim pressures are more likely to be used on '3rd & pass it' downs because, like you said, it'd be susceptible to run plays since dropping down linemen into short zone coverage is going to screw with run fits. This is just a guess on my part.

Great point! Which leads me to a really dumb question. If you were running the 49ers defense, would your overall philosophy be (1) stop the run first - which is the traditional defensive approach or (2) stop the pass first, and basically run blitz on run downs, with the idea of stopping the run *second?*

I think the overall philosophy of any good defense is still to stop the run first. Even if it's a "passing league", running the ball equates to controlling the LoS, and controlling the LoS is the foundation of a successful defense. Being required to run blitz as the answer to stopping the run is always a gamble. On any specific play, a run blitz is designed to take away a certain type of run, whether blocking scheme or direction. Guess wrong and it's a big run.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

I think (and usually I'm wrong ) that the counter is already there, It's called the outside zone run. If teams basically do the fire zone blitz and pattern matching zone coverages with simulated pressures - those are all pretty much pass defensive concepts. Just run the damn ball! I.e. Kyle's patented Outside zone run - we've come full circle again from 2019. Maybe.

I think that may be why they've doubled down on agile OLinemen like Puni and Kingston etc...

Sim pressures are more likely to be used on '3rd & pass it' downs because, like you said, it'd be susceptible to run plays since dropping down linemen into short zone coverage is going to screw with run fits. This is just a guess on my part.

Great point! Which leads me to a really dumb question. If you were running the 49ers defense, would your overall philosophy be (1) stop the run first - which is the traditional defensive approach or (2) stop the pass first, and basically run blitz on run downs, with the idea of stopping the run *second?*

I think the overall philosophy of any good defense is still to stop the run first. Even if it's a "passing league", running the ball equates to controlling the LoS, and controlling the LoS is the foundation of a successful defense. Being required to run blitz as the answer to stopping the run is always a gamble. On any specific play, a run blitz is designed to take away a certain type of run, whether blocking scheme or direction. Guess wrong and it's a big run.

Last year we ran over Baltimore and still lost.

Guys like Fangio seem to be shifting to 3-3-6 and 2-4-5 defenses and seem to shift emphasis from stopping the run to stopping the pass first.

I think you can still stop (or slow down the run game) with certain formations like the Tite front, if you have that athletic two gapping nose tackle. What's your take on the Pete Carrol/Fangio scheme-meld experiment going on with the 49er defense this year?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I believe the running game is making a comeback partially because of this naturally eb and flow of the game.

Understood. I wonder how Kyle can adapt to that?

Yes, the running game becoming a bit more prevalent than years past is due to more two high safety coverages (lighter box).

I misspoke when I said that KC BAL and SEA had adopted the Brian Flores scheme. Flores (in MIA and MIN) and KC played a lot of man coverage compared to the rest of the league and compared to BAL. But the one common theme they all had, and it is related to what we are discussing - how to counter Kyle - is that it takes an aggressive approach to disguising coverage and pass rush.

Flores' scheme makes it look like Cover0 but they will do multiple things off of it. What KC and BAL do a lot of is disguise their pass rush using simulated pressures. KC led the league in getting an unblocked rusher. It's all about disguise now for the innovative defenses. These schemes are given the green light to do this due to how Kyle uses formations.

I think one counter to this is to spread things out, formationally, so that outside CB blitzes are not on the menu, and the OL is given a clearer picture regarding who to block, and whether or not a blitz is coming.

Good article from The Athletic on SEA's new head coach (from BAL) and the scheme he employs. This is the latest trend in the defensive world - creating confusion with disguised pressure packages and simulated pressures.

(paid subscription) I'll show a few snippets from this Ted Nguyen article that was just posted today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5469059/2024/05/13/mike-macdonald-defense-approach-seahawks/
A defensive philosophical shift is happening in the NFL, and new Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald is at the heart of it.
Macdonald is aggressive, but he actually doesn't bring more than four rushers much. The Ravens have ranked 22nd in blitz percentage (13.7 percent) since 2022. Macdonald pressures offenses with the illusion of multiplicity and simulated pressures (four-man rushes with one or more rushers coming from the second or third level with one or two defensive linemen dropping into coverage).

When he does blitz, offenses usually have no idea where the pressure is coming from because his defenses can present so many different looks from week to week. The Ravens were so multiple because of the unique way Macdonald teaches and structures his pressure packages.

(it then shows a few examples using film cut ups)
----------------------------
It's a good thing that this defensive scheme is now in the NFC West. It'll give Brock and Kyle two reps against it each year so that if it continues to spread, they're better off getting exposure to it. One of the key reasons this scheme works is because of how Kyle often aligns his WRs close to the TE/OL. This invites more defenders into the box and allows the defense to create this kind of confusion. It's a counter to what Kyle likes to do, and now Kyle will be forced to counterpunch.

I think (and usually I'm wrong ) that the counter is already there, It's called the outside zone run. If teams basically do the fire zone blitz and pattern matching zone coverages with simulated pressures - those are all pretty much pass defensive concepts. Just run the damn ball! I.e. Kyle's patented Outside zone run - we've come full circle again from 2019. Maybe.

I think that may be why they've doubled down on agile OLinemen like Puni and Kingston etc...

Sim pressures are more likely to be used on '3rd & pass it' downs because, like you said, it'd be susceptible to run plays since dropping down linemen into short zone coverage is going to screw with run fits. This is just a guess on my part.

Great point! Which leads me to a really dumb question. If you were running the 49ers defense, would your overall philosophy be (1) stop the run first - which is the traditional defensive approach or (2) stop the pass first, and basically run blitz on run downs, with the idea of stopping the run *second?*

I think the overall philosophy of any good defense is still to stop the run first. Even if it's a "passing league", running the ball equates to controlling the LoS, and controlling the LoS is the foundation of a successful defense. Being required to run blitz as the answer to stopping the run is always a gamble. On any specific play, a run blitz is designed to take away a certain type of run, whether blocking scheme or direction. Guess wrong and it's a big run.

Last year we ran over Baltimore and still lost.

Guys like Fangio seem to be shifting to 3-3-6 and 2-4-5 defenses and seem to shift emphasis from stopping the run to stopping the pass first.

I think you can still stop (or slow down the run game) with certain formations like the Tite front, if you have that athletic two gapping nose tackle. What's your take on the Pete Carrol/Fangio scheme-meld experiment going on with the 49er defense this year?

I'd say the 4 INTs thrown had much more to do with that BAL loss than anything else.

I wasn't aware there's a, "Carrol/Fangio scheme-meld experiment going on". Where did you read this?

That's two very different techniques that I don't think can co-exist on the same defense. It'd be a 'jack of all trades, master of none' situation. Based on the recent comments from DeVondre Campbell, how he explained his time in GB's split safety system (Staley scheme), and how he's having fun again now that he has the 49er playbook, I don't think Staley is implementing any of that 1.5 gap stuff. I would not be a fan if they tried to meld the two systems together when it comes to front7 play.

How about screen passes once in a while, last I heard that was an effective NFL play. And a deep ball here and there.

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
How about screen passes once in a while, last I heard that was an effective NFL play. And a deep ball here and there.

Especially if the screen pass is to Christian.

Originally posted by thl408:
I'd say the 4 INTs thrown had much more to do with that BAL loss than anything else.

I wasn't aware there's a, "Carrol/Fangio scheme-meld experiment going on". Where did you read this?

That's two very different techniques that I don't think can co-exist on the same defense. It'd be a 'jack of all trades, master of none' situation. Based on the recent comments from DeVondre Campbell, how he explained his time in GB's split safety system (Staley scheme), and how he's having fun again now that he has the 49er playbook, I don't think Staley is implementing any of that 1.5 gap stuff. I would not be a fan if they tried to meld the two systems together when it comes to front7 play.

Well Kyle put Sorensen and Staley together this year. To me it's a scheme evolution or meld between the two major defensive schemes. You have Pete's Kiiffen/Seifert defensive legacy and Fangio's dome patrol legacy being melded together under Sorensen and Staley respectively.

Sorensen under the cover three and Fangio with his (I think) cover 4. I could be wrong. But I think the differences are where the safeties are. You can stop the runs in nickel, if you bring up both safeties - and make sure the defense run-fits well.

Baltimore - I think one reason we lost is that their defense basically baited Brock and Kyle to pass because of the scheme. That scheme doesn't focus so much on stopping the run as it is trying to cause turnovers - a la the Seifert/Carroll scheme, and the Fangio scheme also focuses on turnovers via the various linebacker blitzes. I see Kyle trying to evolve the back end of the wide 9 with blending the two systems. Either that or I just have too much time on my hands and no football to watch.

Originally posted by eastie:
Do any of you guys remember the Green Bay packers, under Vince Lombardi? They ran a power sweep to perfection. Lombardi didn't care if the defense knew it was coming or not. The team practiced that play so much that they ran it to perfection and dared a defense to stop it. Diversity in the offense is a matter of how well the team runs the plays called. When every player does his part to perfection, it will be a successful play. If they don't, the odds are it won't get the yardage it was designed to get. Kyle's offense is so precise that the timing of each players action is coordinated to create an opening that will be available for just a second or two. With a QB like Brock, who processes so quickly, the offense can really disrupt the defenses game plan. Brock will continue to improve as he gets more playing time and this offense will continue to dominate on a regular basis. let's go Niners!

Sometimes and offense can be to complex. As you stated if every player does his job properly the play will likely be successful. If the offense is too complex it increases the chances of a player missing an assignment. I remember during Walsh's time the Niners ran their plays to perfection. It wasn't lain vanilla but it wasn't too complex either. One of the things he did was throw in a trick play nearly every game. He might never run it again all year but teams had to be aware of it.