KS Scheme only talk please

This article was posted in the week leading up to the SB. It's so good it should be available for all to read in this slower moving thread. Kyle's scheme changes with the landscape of the league's defense. When it was the Seattle Cover3, Kyle's offense was a certain way. As the league moved to two high coverage shells, Kyle's offense shifted. As the league moves to schemes that are hyper aggressive on disguise, it will need to adapt once more.

This article focuses on the playaction pass once being a staple of Kyle's offense to now taking on a much lesser role, and how Kyle still gets the benefits of playaction without actually using playaction. It also mentions Kyle's use of tight formations (tight splits) as a defining trait of his offense. It's a long-ish read but you can skip past the play cut ups and still get a high level understanding of what the article is saying.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/2/7/24064256/super-bowl-preview-kyle-shanahan-offense-evolution-san-francisco-49ers
Shanahan himself isn't running "the Shanahan offense" anymore, in that "the Shanahan offense" is a static reference point, a fossilized idea, a particular scheme deployed at a particular moment. The offense that once took the league by storm, that is still taking the league by storm … the creator himself has moved beyond it.
"The Shanahan offense" is old hat. The Shanahan offense—the one that Kyle and the 2023-24 San Francisco 49ers are putting on the field every Sunday—is something new.

In 2019, one out of every four pass attempts from the 49ers came with under-center play-action attached. In 2023, it's one out of every nine. Shanahan went from a league-leading rate in 2019 to a below-average rate in 2022.

This is another feature of the Shanahan offense that, unlike the play-action pass, has stood the test of time: formational width. According to Next Gen Stats, the 49ers offense have been top five in condensed formation rate in every season since 2017. Put another way: Nobody consistently runs tighter formations than the 49ers. This year, they average formations that are 19.9 yards wide—the lowest number in the database's history.

Great article by JD!!!

One of the biggest differences will be in the pressure packages and coverage the team utilizes this season compared to last season. Under Wilks, the coverage of the secondary was the focus, allowing for more complicated disguises and adjustments to create advantageous matchups while asking the front to win their one-on-one matchups.
[...]
So far in the preseason, Nick Sorensen has brought back pressure packages that were run under Robert Saleh and DeMeco Ryans,
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/183026-sorensens-49ers-defense-differ-scheme/

We asked and received:). Thanks JD

Originally posted by ritz126:
i would argue our early drafting is pretty good maybe slightly above average

we don't have one of the most talented rosters because of bad drafting

I would say we have one of the most talented rosters because of roster building (which includes the draft)

Originally posted by thl408:
This article was posted in the week leading up to the SB. It's so good it should be available for all to read in this slower moving thread. Kyle's scheme changes with the landscape of the league's defense. When it was the Seattle Cover3, Kyle's offense was a certain way. As the league moved to two high coverage shells, Kyle's offense shifted. As the league moves to schemes that are hyper aggressive on disguise, it will need to adapt once more.

This article focuses on the playaction pass once being a staple of Kyle's offense to now taking on a much lesser role, and how Kyle still gets the benefits of playaction without actually using playaction. It also mentions Kyle's use of tight formations (tight splits) as a defining trait of his offense. It's a long-ish read but you can skip past the play cut ups and still get a high level understanding of what the article is saying.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/2/7/24064256/super-bowl-preview-kyle-shanahan-offense-evolution-san-francisco-49ers
Shanahan himself isn't running "the Shanahan offense" anymore, in that "the Shanahan offense" is a static reference point, a fossilized idea, a particular scheme deployed at a particular moment. The offense that once took the league by storm, that is still taking the league by storm … the creator himself has moved beyond it.
"The Shanahan offense" is old hat. The Shanahan offense—the one that Kyle and the 2023-24 San Francisco 49ers are putting on the field every Sunday—is something new.

In 2019, one out of every four pass attempts from the 49ers came with under-center play-action attached. In 2023, it's one out of every nine. Shanahan went from a league-leading rate in 2019 to a below-average rate in 2022.

This is another feature of the Shanahan offense that, unlike the play-action pass, has stood the test of time: formational width. According to Next Gen Stats, the 49ers offense have been top five in condensed formation rate in every season since 2017. Put another way: Nobody consistently runs tighter formations than the 49ers. This year, they average formations that are 19.9 yards wide—the lowest number in the database's history.

So, what Shanahan has been doing the past couple of seasons is expanding the role of multiple goes and choice routes as we're seeing more zone matching schemes.

Flores is a great example. His stuff looks like man-0 blitzes but it's a lot of matching zones. He'll show you the same look 3x and have man outside with some sort of cone coverage over the inside, then the 4th time he'll give the same look and go 2 deep fire-zone or drop 8. This stresses offenses in so many ways. So, as counters, Shanahan has been using Deebo and CMC on a ton of choice routes baked into most plays. The way his choice routes work are not necessarily based off leverage anymore, but on coverage. Where the vacated zone hole is, that's where the choice route goes.

For example, against Arizona he used a ton of his play "choice-clear" which is a seam clearing route(in the playbook it's just called "clear" route). The way Gannon plays his C4, the strong side hook defender would usually carry a seam route from a #2. But, if the HB was attached in the backfield in shotgun, he'd spot drop the hook on the strong side and sometimes it'd be the MIKE to carry the seam to 15 yards, deliver to the quarters safety and sit on in-breakers from the #1. That allowed them to clamp verticals down the middle, sit on the deep in breakers and then they'd put the hook defender to match the #3 RB out of the backfield.
So, Shanahan ran Juice/Kittle on clearing routes with CMC on a "choice" but it wasn't based off how the outside hook defender played his leverage, it was going to be an in-breaker because the middle zone defender carried the seam route.

He's doing a lot of stuff like that where the offense has more fluidity to adjust as teams play different matching rules and that's part of the condensed splits. It's giving receivers true 3-way goes on all these starting spots.

Then, the usage of Deebo and CMC as utility players makes it harder for some of these coverages because you can end up with a LB having to try and run with Deebo and tackle him in the flat.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:
This article was posted in the week leading up to the SB. It's so good it should be available for all to read in this slower moving thread. Kyle's scheme changes with the landscape of the league's defense. When it was the Seattle Cover3, Kyle's offense was a certain way. As the league moved to two high coverage shells, Kyle's offense shifted. As the league moves to schemes that are hyper aggressive on disguise, it will need to adapt once more.

This article focuses on the playaction pass once being a staple of Kyle's offense to now taking on a much lesser role, and how Kyle still gets the benefits of playaction without actually using playaction. It also mentions Kyle's use of tight formations (tight splits) as a defining trait of his offense. It's a long-ish read but you can skip past the play cut ups and still get a high level understanding of what the article is saying.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/2/7/24064256/super-bowl-preview-kyle-shanahan-offense-evolution-san-francisco-49ers
Shanahan himself isn't running "the Shanahan offense" anymore, in that "the Shanahan offense" is a static reference point, a fossilized idea, a particular scheme deployed at a particular moment. The offense that once took the league by storm, that is still taking the league by storm … the creator himself has moved beyond it.
"The Shanahan offense" is old hat. The Shanahan offense—the one that Kyle and the 2023-24 San Francisco 49ers are putting on the field every Sunday—is something new.

In 2019, one out of every four pass attempts from the 49ers came with under-center play-action attached. In 2023, it's one out of every nine. Shanahan went from a league-leading rate in 2019 to a below-average rate in 2022.

This is another feature of the Shanahan offense that, unlike the play-action pass, has stood the test of time: formational width. According to Next Gen Stats, the 49ers offense have been top five in condensed formation rate in every season since 2017. Put another way: Nobody consistently runs tighter formations than the 49ers. This year, they average formations that are 19.9 yards wide—the lowest number in the database's history.

So, what Shanahan has been doing the past couple of seasons is expanding the role of multiple goes and choice routes as we're seeing more zone matching schemes.

Flores is a great example. His stuff looks like man-0 blitzes but it's a lot of matching zones. He'll show you the same look 3x and have man outside with some sort of cone coverage over the inside, then the 4th time he'll give the same look and go 2 deep fire-zone or drop 8. This stresses offenses in so many ways. So, as counters, Shanahan has been using Deebo and CMC on a ton of choice routes baked into most plays. The way his choice routes work are not necessarily based off leverage anymore, but on coverage. Where the vacated zone hole is, that's where the choice route goes.

For example, against Arizona he used a ton of his play "choice-clear" which is a seam clearing route(in the playbook it's just called "clear" route). The way Gannon plays his C4, the strong side hook defender would usually carry a seam route from a #2. But, if the HB was attached in the backfield in shotgun, he'd spot drop the hook on the strong side and sometimes it'd be the MIKE to carry the seam to 15 yards, deliver to the quarters safety and sit on in-breakers from the #1. That allowed them to clamp verticals down the middle, sit on the deep in breakers and then they'd put the hook defender to match the #3 RB out of the backfield.
So, Shanahan ran Juice/Kittle on clearing routes with CMC on a "choice" but it wasn't based off how the outside hook defender played his leverage, it was going to be an in-breaker because the middle zone defender carried the seam route.

He's doing a lot of stuff like that where the offense has more fluidity to adjust as teams play different matching rules and that's part of the condensed splits. It's giving receivers true 3-way goes on all these starting spots.

Then, the usage of Deebo and CMC as utility players makes it harder for some of these coverages because you can end up with a LB having to try and run with Deebo and tackle him in the flat.

all that for a simple 0-2 Super Bowl result... while having the better team on both times..

Originally posted by 9moon:
all that for a simple 0-2 Super Bowl result... while having the better team on both times..

We should just give up and trade the whole team away, amirite?

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:
This article was posted in the week leading up to the SB. It's so good it should be available for all to read in this slower moving thread. Kyle's scheme changes with the landscape of the league's defense. When it was the Seattle Cover3, Kyle's offense was a certain way. As the league moved to two high coverage shells, Kyle's offense shifted. As the league moves to schemes that are hyper aggressive on disguise, it will need to adapt once more.

This article focuses on the playaction pass once being a staple of Kyle's offense to now taking on a much lesser role, and how Kyle still gets the benefits of playaction without actually using playaction. It also mentions Kyle's use of tight formations (tight splits) as a defining trait of his offense. It's a long-ish read but you can skip past the play cut ups and still get a high level understanding of what the article is saying.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/2/7/24064256/super-bowl-preview-kyle-shanahan-offense-evolution-san-francisco-49ers
Shanahan himself isn't running "the Shanahan offense" anymore, in that "the Shanahan offense" is a static reference point, a fossilized idea, a particular scheme deployed at a particular moment. The offense that once took the league by storm, that is still taking the league by storm … the creator himself has moved beyond it.
"The Shanahan offense" is old hat. The Shanahan offense—the one that Kyle and the 2023-24 San Francisco 49ers are putting on the field every Sunday—is something new.

In 2019, one out of every four pass attempts from the 49ers came with under-center play-action attached. In 2023, it's one out of every nine. Shanahan went from a league-leading rate in 2019 to a below-average rate in 2022.

This is another feature of the Shanahan offense that, unlike the play-action pass, has stood the test of time: formational width. According to Next Gen Stats, the 49ers offense have been top five in condensed formation rate in every season since 2017. Put another way: Nobody consistently runs tighter formations than the 49ers. This year, they average formations that are 19.9 yards wide—the lowest number in the database's history.

So, what Shanahan has been doing the past couple of seasons is expanding the role of multiple goes and choice routes as we're seeing more zone matching schemes.

Flores is a great example. His stuff looks like man-0 blitzes but it's a lot of matching zones. He'll show you the same look 3x and have man outside with some sort of cone coverage over the inside, then the 4th time he'll give the same look and go 2 deep fire-zone or drop 8. This stresses offenses in so many ways. So, as counters, Shanahan has been using Deebo and CMC on a ton of choice routes baked into most plays. The way his choice routes work are not necessarily based off leverage anymore, but on coverage. Where the vacated zone hole is, that's where the choice route goes.

For example, against Arizona he used a ton of his play "choice-clear" which is a seam clearing route(in the playbook it's just called "clear" route). The way Gannon plays his C4, the strong side hook defender would usually carry a seam route from a #2. But, if the HB was attached in the backfield in shotgun, he'd spot drop the hook on the strong side and sometimes it'd be the MIKE to carry the seam to 15 yards, deliver to the quarters safety and sit on in-breakers from the #1. That allowed them to clamp verticals down the middle, sit on the deep in breakers and then they'd put the hook defender to match the #3 RB out of the backfield.
So, Shanahan ran Juice/Kittle on clearing routes with CMC on a "choice" but it wasn't based off how the outside hook defender played his leverage, it was going to be an in-breaker because the middle zone defender carried the seam route.

He's doing a lot of stuff like that where the offense has more fluidity to adjust as teams play different matching rules and that's part of the condensed splits. It's giving receivers true 3-way goes on all these starting spots.

Then, the usage of Deebo and CMC as utility players makes it harder for some of these coverages because you can end up with a LB having to try and run with Deebo and tackle him in the flat.

all that for a simple 0-2 Super Bowl result... while having the better team on both times..

Also the most injured team on both sides.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:
This article was posted in the week leading up to the SB. It's so good it should be available for all to read in this slower moving thread. Kyle's scheme changes with the landscape of the league's defense. When it was the Seattle Cover3, Kyle's offense was a certain way. As the league moved to two high coverage shells, Kyle's offense shifted. As the league moves to schemes that are hyper aggressive on disguise, it will need to adapt once more.

This article focuses on the playaction pass once being a staple of Kyle's offense to now taking on a much lesser role, and how Kyle still gets the benefits of playaction without actually using playaction. It also mentions Kyle's use of tight formations (tight splits) as a defining trait of his offense. It's a long-ish read but you can skip past the play cut ups and still get a high level understanding of what the article is saying.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/2/7/24064256/super-bowl-preview-kyle-shanahan-offense-evolution-san-francisco-49ers
Shanahan himself isn't running "the Shanahan offense" anymore, in that "the Shanahan offense" is a static reference point, a fossilized idea, a particular scheme deployed at a particular moment. The offense that once took the league by storm, that is still taking the league by storm … the creator himself has moved beyond it.
"The Shanahan offense" is old hat. The Shanahan offense—the one that Kyle and the 2023-24 San Francisco 49ers are putting on the field every Sunday—is something new.

In 2019, one out of every four pass attempts from the 49ers came with under-center play-action attached. In 2023, it's one out of every nine. Shanahan went from a league-leading rate in 2019 to a below-average rate in 2022.

This is another feature of the Shanahan offense that, unlike the play-action pass, has stood the test of time: formational width. According to Next Gen Stats, the 49ers offense have been top five in condensed formation rate in every season since 2017. Put another way: Nobody consistently runs tighter formations than the 49ers. This year, they average formations that are 19.9 yards wide—the lowest number in the database's history.

So, what Shanahan has been doing the past couple of seasons is expanding the role of multiple goes and choice routes as we're seeing more zone matching schemes.

Flores is a great example. His stuff looks like man-0 blitzes but it's a lot of matching zones. He'll show you the same look 3x and have man outside with some sort of cone coverage over the inside, then the 4th time he'll give the same look and go 2 deep fire-zone or drop 8. This stresses offenses in so many ways. So, as counters, Shanahan has been using Deebo and CMC on a ton of choice routes baked into most plays. The way his choice routes work are not necessarily based off leverage anymore, but on coverage. Where the vacated zone hole is, that's where the choice route goes.

For example, against Arizona he used a ton of his play "choice-clear" which is a seam clearing route(in the playbook it's just called "clear" route). The way Gannon plays his C4, the strong side hook defender would usually carry a seam route from a #2. But, if the HB was attached in the backfield in shotgun, he'd spot drop the hook on the strong side and sometimes it'd be the MIKE to carry the seam to 15 yards, deliver to the quarters safety and sit on in-breakers from the #1. That allowed them to clamp verticals down the middle, sit on the deep in breakers and then they'd put the hook defender to match the #3 RB out of the backfield.
So, Shanahan ran Juice/Kittle on clearing routes with CMC on a "choice" but it wasn't based off how the outside hook defender played his leverage, it was going to be an in-breaker because the middle zone defender carried the seam route.

He's doing a lot of stuff like that where the offense has more fluidity to adjust as teams play different matching rules and that's part of the condensed splits. It's giving receivers true 3-way goes on all these starting spots.

Then, the usage of Deebo and CMC as utility players makes it harder for some of these coverages because you can end up with a LB having to try and run with Deebo and tackle him in the flat.

I think that's where the Pearsall/Cowing WR's come into the mix, because both players are great change of direction guys. In essence, I think if both the QB and Receiver are on the same page, even with all the different coverages, if they can *both* read the same coverage and choose the correct options, a guy or two will always be open. Key is can the WR's read the defense as fast as Brock does? If so, this offense can rival the Tom Brady four wide offense that couldn't be stopped back in the day.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by 9moon:
all that for a simple 0-2 Super Bowl result... while having the better team on both times..

We should just give up and trade the whole team away, amirite?

THAT's not gonna happen.. don't be sILLI.. lol

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:
This article was posted in the week leading up to the SB. It's so good it should be available for all to read in this slower moving thread. Kyle's scheme changes with the landscape of the league's defense. When it was the Seattle Cover3, Kyle's offense was a certain way. As the league moved to two high coverage shells, Kyle's offense shifted. As the league moves to schemes that are hyper aggressive on disguise, it will need to adapt once more.

This article focuses on the playaction pass once being a staple of Kyle's offense to now taking on a much lesser role, and how Kyle still gets the benefits of playaction without actually using playaction. It also mentions Kyle's use of tight formations (tight splits) as a defining trait of his offense. It's a long-ish read but you can skip past the play cut ups and still get a high level understanding of what the article is saying.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/2/7/24064256/super-bowl-preview-kyle-shanahan-offense-evolution-san-francisco-49ers
Shanahan himself isn't running "the Shanahan offense" anymore, in that "the Shanahan offense" is a static reference point, a fossilized idea, a particular scheme deployed at a particular moment. The offense that once took the league by storm, that is still taking the league by storm … the creator himself has moved beyond it.
"The Shanahan offense" is old hat. The Shanahan offense—the one that Kyle and the 2023-24 San Francisco 49ers are putting on the field every Sunday—is something new.

In 2019, one out of every four pass attempts from the 49ers came with under-center play-action attached. In 2023, it's one out of every nine. Shanahan went from a league-leading rate in 2019 to a below-average rate in 2022.

This is another feature of the Shanahan offense that, unlike the play-action pass, has stood the test of time: formational width. According to Next Gen Stats, the 49ers offense have been top five in condensed formation rate in every season since 2017. Put another way: Nobody consistently runs tighter formations than the 49ers. This year, they average formations that are 19.9 yards wide—the lowest number in the database's history.

So, what Shanahan has been doing the past couple of seasons is expanding the role of multiple goes and choice routes as we're seeing more zone matching schemes.

Flores is a great example. His stuff looks like man-0 blitzes but it's a lot of matching zones. He'll show you the same look 3x and have man outside with some sort of cone coverage over the inside, then the 4th time he'll give the same look and go 2 deep fire-zone or drop 8. This stresses offenses in so many ways. So, as counters, Shanahan has been using Deebo and CMC on a ton of choice routes baked into most plays. The way his choice routes work are not necessarily based off leverage anymore, but on coverage. Where the vacated zone hole is, that's where the choice route goes.

For example, against Arizona he used a ton of his play "choice-clear" which is a seam clearing route(in the playbook it's just called "clear" route). The way Gannon plays his C4, the strong side hook defender would usually carry a seam route from a #2. But, if the HB was attached in the backfield in shotgun, he'd spot drop the hook on the strong side and sometimes it'd be the MIKE to carry the seam to 15 yards, deliver to the quarters safety and sit on in-breakers from the #1. That allowed them to clamp verticals down the middle, sit on the deep in breakers and then they'd put the hook defender to match the #3 RB out of the backfield.
So, Shanahan ran Juice/Kittle on clearing routes with CMC on a "choice" but it wasn't based off how the outside hook defender played his leverage, it was going to be an in-breaker because the middle zone defender carried the seam route.

He's doing a lot of stuff like that where the offense has more fluidity to adjust as teams play different matching rules and that's part of the condensed splits. It's giving receivers true 3-way goes on all these starting spots.

Then, the usage of Deebo and CMC as utility players makes it harder for some of these coverages because you can end up with a LB having to try and run with Deebo and tackle him in the flat.

I think that's where the Pearsall/Cowing WR's come into the mix, because both players are great change of direction guys. In essence, I think if both the QB and Receiver are on the same page, even with all the different coverages, if they can *both* read the same coverage and choose the correct options, a guy or two will always be open. Key is can the WR's read the defense as fast as Brock does? If so, this offense can rival the Tom Brady four wide offense that couldn't be stopped back in the day.

That's what you hear when you hear Brock or CMC talk about "seeing things the same way" so often.

They're talking about reading the coverage the same way.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by 9moon:
all that for a simple 0-2 Super Bowl result... while having the better team on both times..

We should just give up and trade the whole team away, amirite?

THAT's not gonna happen.. don't be sILLI.. lol

What you did there, I see it.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by 9moon:
all that for a simple 0-2 Super Bowl result... while having the better team on both times..

We should just give up and trade the whole team away, amirite?

THAT's not gonna happen.. don't be sILLI.. lol

What you did there, I see it.

HOW yah like me NOW !!??