Is Christian McCaffrey the best Rb ever to wear a 9er uniform?

Originally posted by 4ML:
Still early on McCaffrey - but if Gore had this much talent on offense for 6-7 years (and one of the best coaching staff in the game) - he'd be getting close to 2000 total yards consistently.

Love McCaffrey, Gore, and Craig. All were special but I give Gore the tie-breaker bc he played on some really really awful teams and was still elite.

really hard to argue against that when gore had Larry Allen and Nora Turner for for one year and put up over 2000 yards from scrimmage with 5.4 yards a carry.

I have a soft spot for Garrison Hearst...and what could have been if he never got hurt.....but Gore took a damn beating and was hella gifted and an iron man.

Had Norv Turner stuck around...odds are Gore could have taken that 300 carry load year in and year out...he was a work horse.

Gore's 2180 yards on 312 carries/61 catches is more than Emmit Smith ever pulled off even though Emmitt touched the ball 437 times in 1995.

Gore's 49er career ended with 5 yards a touch, just like Emmit's Dallas career ended with 5 yards a touch....that is crazy when you consider how much talent Smith was surrounded with and how terrible those 49er teams were for Gore.

Just for reference Peak Gore was 5.8 yards per touch( with crap WRs and no QB)....the exact same number CMC is pulling off this year.....5.8 per touch

Never got to see Joe the Jet, so really the comparison is with Roger and Frank. Watters was excellent, but not even on the same ballpark as they have been for their contributions to the team.

Roger was a precursor of the type of back CMC is, a hybrid back/receiver who expanded our offense to a level that helped other great players reach even greater heights. His 1000/1000 season was amazing for the time, for the opposite reasons than it is today (much less passing at the time). Some 49ers fans have stupidly never forgiven him for the 1990 NFCCG fumble, but it's unkind and unfair. What he did in the 84 SB, the 88 season and the 89 juggernaut team was amazing. CMC has to show he can equal this for 6 seasons before I can crown him. Roger was also (and remains) a great loveable character and a heart and soul of those teams. The fact he's not in the HOF when Betts is (and I actually liked Betts but he never compared to Roger), is a complete travesty and recency bias of the worst sort.

Frank was a very different back to CMC. His between the tackles, horizontal to the ground, get through the tiniest holes like a cat, ability was unique. He was a decent receiver but no way near as amazing as CMC is. Frank's blitz protection was excellent, but it was his downfield blocking that was absolutely incredible. I remember a block he threw on a Kaepernick run vs the Jaguars in London in the '13 season (I saw it live from the stands) where he bowled over a defender (I think a LB) and threw him against ANOTHER defender throwing him down as well. He was a bowling ball who threw defenders around like pins. Then of course you have his battling through adversity: CMC has had his shares of injuries he had to battle back from and well done to him; but Frank had two ACLs before he even played a down in the NFL And of course he had to play in those dreadful 05 to '10 teams, facing 8 man fronts all the time since he was our only weapon (VD only played at a high high level from 11 to 13), and still getting 1600 yards in an otherwise horrible 6-10 season when we had to keep passing in garbage time while playing from behind. As for his heart... well, he WAS the heart of the team for almost a decade. CMC looks like an excellent dude, professional to a fault and tight with his teammates. But Frank was the team's flag, its symbol. It's a tragedy they couldn't pick those 5 yards for him in '12 (he was totally gassed after that run to bring us there). Dammit!

So, much as I love CMC, he's not even my favourite in this team of great performers and characters (it's big Trent for me, or rather Orator Trent going by his incredibly articulate interviews). I loved Roger, but he was not my favourite on those teams either (that of course would be Rice, duh). Whereas Frank Gore was the centre, heart, soul and focus of those teams and an all time favourite.

In todays NFL Roger Craig would be a weekly conversation with the NFL's wide open offense. The GOAT Jerry Rice would be the topic of every NFL news daily! Montana will still be the greatest "Game Manager" EVER.

someone mentioned Garrison Hearst and I can't believe I forgot about him, until Brocky he was my 2nd favorite 9er of all time...
this will cause some butt hurt but Garrison Hearst was a better RB than Frank Gore

Originally posted by paulk205:
Never got to see Joe the Jet, so really the comparison is with Roger and Frank. Watters was excellent, but not even on the same ballpark as they have been for their contributions to the team.

Roger was a precursor of the type of back CMC is, a hybrid back/receiver who expanded our offense to a level that helped other great players reach even greater heights. His 1000/1000 season was amazing for the time, for the opposite reasons than it is today (much less passing at the time). Some 49ers fans have stupidly never forgiven him for the 1990 NFCCG fumble, but it's unkind and unfair. What he did in the 84 SB, the 88 season and the 89 juggernaut team was amazing. CMC has to show he can equal this for 6 seasons before I can crown him. Roger was also (and remains) a great loveable character and a heart and soul of those teams. The fact he's not in the HOF when Betts is (and I actually liked Betts but he never compared to Roger), is a complete travesty and recency bias of the worst sort.

Frank was a very different back to CMC. His between the tackles, horizontal to the ground, get through the tiniest holes like a cat, ability was unique. He was a decent receiver but no way near as amazing as CMC is. Frank's blitz protection was excellent, but it was his downfield blocking that was absolutely incredible. I remember a block he threw on a Kaepernick run vs the Jaguars in London in the '13 season (I saw it live from the stands) where he bowled over a defender (I think a LB) and threw him against ANOTHER defender throwing him down as well. He was a bowling ball who threw defenders around like pins. Then of course you have his battling through adversity: CMC has had his shares of injuries he had to battle back from and well done to him; but Frank had two ACLs before he even played a down in the NFL And of course he had to play in those dreadful 05 to '10 teams, facing 8 man fronts all the time since he was our only weapon (VD only played at a high high level from 11 to 13), and still getting 1600 yards in an otherwise horrible 6-10 season when we had to keep passing in garbage time while playing from behind. As for his heart... well, he WAS the heart of the team for almost a decade. CMC looks like an excellent dude, professional to a fault and tight with his teammates. But Frank was the team's flag, its symbol. It's a tragedy they couldn't pick those 5 yards for him in '12 (he was totally gassed after that run to bring us there). Dammit!

So, much as I love CMC, he's not even my favourite in this team of great performers and characters (it's big Trent for me, or rather Orator Trent going by his incredibly articulate interviews). I loved Roger, but he was not my favourite on those teams either (that of course would be Rice, duh). Whereas Frank Gore was the centre, heart, soul and focus of those teams and an all time favourite.

Nice post!!! I agree wth so much of what you said. TW is my favorite as well even though I am so grateful to watch all our stars on this team.

CMC has to do what he does as long as Roger and Frank did it to be compared. Though he is on his way, agreed Roger is more of the type CMC is.

I remember watching those teams and the only joy was seeing Gore become amazing between the tackles. He would kinda just squeeze through with no TW provided huge holes.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Still early on McCaffrey - but if Gore had this much talent on offense for 6-7 years (and one of the best coaching staff in the game) - he'd be getting close to 2000 total yards consistently.

Love McCaffrey, Gore, and Craig. All were special but I give Gore the tie-breaker bc he played on some really really awful teams and was still elite.

really hard to argue against that when gore had Larry Allen and Nora Turner for for one year and put up over 2000 yards from scrimmage with 5.4 yards a carry.

I have a soft spot for Garrison Hearst...and what could have been if he never got hurt.....but Gore took a damn beating and was hella gifted and an iron man.

Had Norv Turner stuck around...odds are Gore could have taken that 300 carry load year in and year out...he was a work horse.

Gore's 2180 yards on 312 carries/61 catches is more than Emmit Smith ever pulled off even though Emmitt touched the ball 437 times in 1995.

Gore's 49er career ended with 5 yards a touch, just like Emmit's Dallas career ended with 5 yards a touch....that is crazy when you consider how much talent Smith was surrounded with and how terrible those 49er teams were for Gore.

Just for reference Peak Gore was 5.8 yards per touch( with crap WRs and no QB)....the exact same number CMC is pulling off this year.....5.8 per touch

I wish, for the 2005-2010 years, we had a consistent offensive coordinator that recognized that (1) Alex Smith was a good, but not great QB, who was responsible with the football and could occasionally make good plays, (2) Frank Gore was a superlative RB in between the tackles, and (3) ran a power run, ball control offense.

The 49ers offense was starting to show promise under Norv Turner. It took until Jim Harbaugh for us to get there. The player personnel we had indicated that we should've schemed similarly to the Emmitt Smith 90s Cowboys. We could've been competitive a whole lot earlier, and maybe Alex Smith would've been able to develop with a lot more confidence.

But alas, Mike Nolan mismanaged Alex Smith's shoulder injury and never found the offensive coordinator that Alex needed. Had Frank Gore had a stronger surrounding cast, I think people would've given him a lot more respect as an elite RB during those years.

Gore was the GOAT as a pure running back and Craig was the standard as the hybrid runner/pass catcher. Both Craig and CMC have the additional stud skill teammates that would get targets so they might not get as many touches per game as Gore. At the end of the day I think CMC might have a better argument for Hall of Fame over Craig. It is a travesty that Craig is not in the Hall though.

Originally posted by TopDogBerkeley:
Gore was the GOAT as a pure running back and Craig was the standard as the hybrid runner/pass catcher. Both Craig and CMC have the additional stud skill teammates that would get targets so they might not get as many touches per game as Gore. At the end of the day I think CMC might have a better argument for Hall of Fame over Craig. It is a travesty that Craig is not in the Hall though.

To chime in on this... I think CMC has a very good chance for Hall of Fame consideration when his career is over, depending on how his career ends.
Voters look at the stats. They look at the awards. They look at the rings.

But they also look at the optics of "how good were you as a player, relative to other players at your position?" One of the question marks for Frank Gore, when it's his turn, is that, outside of his second year, he wasn't really regarded as a top 3 RB each year. Personally, I don't agree with that and would argue he suffered from bad teams in the first half of his career, but yeah... that's what the argument will be.

Christian McCaffrey, meanwhile, has gotten a lot of accolades so far in his career and is generally viewed at as an elite RB every year he's been in the league.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
One of the question marks for Frank Gore, when it's his turn, is that, outside of his second year, he wasn't really regarded as a top 3 RB each year. Personally, I don't agree with that and would argue he suffered from bad teams in the first half of his career, but yeah... that's what the argument will be.

The thing in Gore's favor is that he has played in a similar number of playoff games as Adrian Peterson and Barry Sanders, and Gore was the only one of the three to be in a Super Bowl. I think both Gore and Peterson will likely get voted into the Hall in the same year.

Originally posted by TopDogBerkeley:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
One of the question marks for Frank Gore, when it's his turn, is that, outside of his second year, he wasn't really regarded as a top 3 RB each year. Personally, I don't agree with that and would argue he suffered from bad teams in the first half of his career, but yeah... that's what the argument will be.

The thing in Gore's favor is that he has played in a similar number of playoff games as Adrian Peterson and Barry Sanders, and Gore was the only one of the three to be in a Super Bowl. I think both Gore and Peterson will likely get voted into the Hall in the same year.

I'm going to be shocked if he doesn't get in within his first two years of eligibility.
16 years in the league at RB, most games played as a RB, 3rd most rushing yards of all-time in a pass-first era as a between-the-tackles style runner... I think those facts are just too much to keep him out. Anyone that watched the 2005-2010 49ers could see that this was a star player who deserved more from his surrounding cast.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
someone mentioned Garrison Hearst and I can't believe I forgot about him, until Brocky he was my 2nd favorite 9er of all time...
this will cause some butt hurt but Garrison Hearst was a better RB than Frank Gore

as he should be :o)

Hearst and Charlie Garner are criminally underrated for the different reasons.... Hearst because of the injury (he was a 2000 yard from scrimmage guy) and Garner because he was a mercenary 2 year rental.

Such a short peak from Hearst he can't be in the same class as ..say...Gore...but he deserves to be in the conversation.

Kinda like... Wendell Tyler....if the dude could have stayed on the field...man... Dude was running for 5 yards per carry for years once he got to the 49ers.....that Tyler at HB and Craig at FB is the most dangerous backfield in the history of the 49ers and it is not even close.

During that 1985 season...Tyler was on pace for another 1200 yard season and Craig as a FB had his 1000/1000 season. Too bad Tyler went down after 12 games and 850 yards.

So when people say Juice is the best FB in the history of the NFL or the 49ers or whatever...like...dude no way... Damn near every season Craig was a FB he helped produce a 5.0 carry RB on the 49ers...plus the rushing and receiving...dude was a monster.

I really liked the double full Back backfield of Craig and Rathman...but to me Craig will always be a FB...and out of this best running back conversation.

Hearst was great, Tyler was great....but you have to stay on the field. Just like CMC has to stay on the field.....If you want to go after Gore...you have to stay on the field.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
I'm going to be shocked if he doesn't get in within his first two years of eligibility.
16 years in the league at RB, most games played as a RB, 3rd most rushing yards of all-time in a pass-first era as a between-the-tackles style runner... I think those facts are just too much to keep him out. Anyone that watched the 2005-2010 49ers could see that this was a star player who deserved more from his surrounding cast.

Agree. At the same time, at the risk of being flamed, it's the only reason he's going in.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
someone mentioned Garrison Hearst and I can't believe I forgot about him, until Brocky he was my 2nd favorite 9er of all time...
this will cause some butt hurt but Garrison Hearst was a better RB than Frank Gore

Cannot disagree. That day he got the injury is etched in my memory. I was so sad. It was a heart breaker 💔

Gore > Mac > Craig > Hearst

Gore led our team in catches a couple years add that with this team and it would be a fun watch. Mac is who he is, if he lasts 5 more years in this offense maybe we switch 1 & 2. Craig is nostalgia, he was good but lezbehonest would you take him over Gore or Mac when they are better runners and pass catchers, probably not. Hearst was such a great runner, will never forget the game against the Jets.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Gore > Mac > Craig > Hearst

Gore led our team in catches a couple years add that with this team and it would be a fun watch. Mac is who he is, if he lasts 5 more years in this offense maybe we switch 1 & 2. Craig is nostalgia, he was good but lezbehonest would you take him over Gore or Mac when they are better runners and pass catchers, probably not. Hearst was such a great runner, will never forget the game against the Jets.

Craig, Nostalgia !?! That is some Bull Seeeit !

craig not a better runner and receiver ?

it obvious that you don't know who Roger Craig is