2008-09 San Antonio Spurs Thread

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I still don't understand why people think the Spurs are no longer what they used to be.

How many games are they out of the best record in the league? 9 games. You do know that out of the top 5 teams in the NBA, no team has had more key injuries this entire season than the Spurs. They are still 2nd in the Western conference basically playing the 1st quarter of the season without one or sometimes 2 of their big 3.

Now, they are playing about another quarter of the season without their biggest X-Factor.

You guys can cry about Bynum all you want but the Spurs have been without key players (more than just one) for almost half the season and are still one the top teams in the league.

Just imagine if the Lakers didn't have their X-Factor, Pao, for half a season.



Oh wait, they only had him for half the season last year and weren't that impressive without him.

If anything, the Spurs are younger and deeper this season. Last season, the Spurs were carrying tired, old baggage like Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and Damon Stoudamire. This season the Spurs replace those guys with Roger Mason, George Hill, and Drew Gooden. In other words, a huge upgrade.

It really all depends on whether Manu returns healthy. Having Tony and Tim is nice, but the Spurs will not win anything without Manu being Manu: fast, herky-jerky, clever, hard-working, clutch. Unfortunately, I don't know that we'll see X-factor Manu ever again.

Sure, your role players have gotten younger, but your main guns have gotten older...namely Manu & Duncan.

As great as Kobe is, just imagine the Lakers without Pao. You wouldn't sniff the Championship. Makes me wonder about Lebron and that MVP.

I don't see how Manu equates to Gasol considering that you also have Tony "the one guy that JoeCool would pick to start a franchise with" Parker, right?

Manu's a slashing guard who has made a career out of kamikaze drives to the hole, and now he's in his 30's. He's hurt and slowing down? No wai! Gasol's a 28 year old big man. Apples and oranges.

It's not comparing Apples to Oranges if you are comparing their importance to the team. I am not trying to compare their type of play. Gasol's importance to the team is that guy who takes them to the next level as does Manu's importance to his team.

But anyways, without Gasol, you guys are toast. No MVP for Kobe and Lebron gets it hands down.

Hmm, imagine if Lebron had Pao, a 7ft + guy who can run the floor and finish ally-oop dunks. I still think Kobe is individually, the better scorer, but I wonder if Lebron had Jackson and Pao.

Pau would have to mainly rely on mid-range jumpers with LeBron, as he couldn't be in the lane because he'd be in LeBron's way. That's why Cleveland's big men are either pick n' pop/drive n' dish shooters (Ilgauskas, Smith) or weakside rebounders (Wallace, Varejao). That's by design. I wonder how Kobe would do next to a good PG like Mo Wiliams (so he can operate on the wing, which is where he's best) and superb defenders at each position. It goes both ways.

When Bynum was healthy last year, we were 25-11 without Gasol, which is a 69.2% winning percentage. Gasol makes us that much better, but spare me the unnecessary accolades.

YOU'VE BEEN....


THUNDERSTRUCK!

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I still don't understand why people think the Spurs are no longer what they used to be.

How many games are they out of the best record in the league? 9 games. You do know that out of the top 5 teams in the NBA, no team has had more key injuries this entire season than the Spurs. They are still 2nd in the Western conference basically playing the 1st quarter of the season without one or sometimes 2 of their big 3.

Now, they are playing about another quarter of the season without their biggest X-Factor.

You guys can cry about Bynum all you want but the Spurs have been without key players (more than just one) for almost half the season and are still one the top teams in the league.

Just imagine if the Lakers didn't have their X-Factor, Pao, for half a season.



Oh wait, they only had him for half the season last year and weren't that impressive without him.

If anything, the Spurs are younger and deeper this season. Last season, the Spurs were carrying tired, old baggage like Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and Damon Stoudamire. This season the Spurs replace those guys with Roger Mason, George Hill, and Drew Gooden. In other words, a huge upgrade.

It really all depends on whether Manu returns healthy. Having Tony and Tim is nice, but the Spurs will not win anything without Manu being Manu: fast, herky-jerky, clever, hard-working, clutch. Unfortunately, I don't know that we'll see X-factor Manu ever again.

Sure, your role players have gotten younger, but your main guns have gotten older...namely Manu & Duncan.

As great as Kobe is, just imagine the Lakers without Pao. You wouldn't sniff the Championship. Makes me wonder about Lebron and that MVP.

I don't see how Manu equates to Gasol considering that you also have Tony "the one guy that JoeCool would pick to start a franchise with" Parker, right?

Manu's a slashing guard who has made a career out of kamikaze drives to the hole, and now he's in his 30's. He's hurt and slowing down? No wai! Gasol's a 28 year old big man. Apples and oranges.

It's not comparing Apples to Oranges if you are comparing their importance to the team. I am not trying to compare their type of play. Gasol's importance to the team is that guy who takes them to the next level as does Manu's importance to his team.

But anyways, without Gasol, you guys are toast. No MVP for Kobe and Lebron gets it hands down.

Hmm, imagine if Lebron had Pao, a 7ft + guy who can run the floor and finish ally-oop dunks. I still think Kobe is individually, the better scorer, but I wonder if Lebron had Jackson and Pao.

Pau would have to mainly rely on mid-range jumpers with LeBron, as he couldn't be in the lane because he'd be in LeBron's way. That's why Cleveland's big men are either pick n' pop/drive n' dish shooters (Ilgauskas, Smith) or weakside rebounders (Wallace, Varejao). That's by design. I wonder how Kobe would do next to a good PG like Mo Wiliams (so he can operate on the wing, which is where he's best) and superb defenders at each position. It goes both ways.

When Bynum was healthy last year, we were 25-11 without Gasol, which is a 69.2% winning percentage. Gasol makes us that much better, but spare me the unnecessary accolades.

Not true if Lebron was in the triangle.

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
YOU'VE BEEN....


THUNDERSTRUCK!

You guys aren't relevant either!

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I still don't understand why people think the Spurs are no longer what they used to be.

How many games are they out of the best record in the league? 9 games. You do know that out of the top 5 teams in the NBA, no team has had more key injuries this entire season than the Spurs. They are still 2nd in the Western conference basically playing the 1st quarter of the season without one or sometimes 2 of their big 3.

Now, they are playing about another quarter of the season without their biggest X-Factor.

You guys can cry about Bynum all you want but the Spurs have been without key players (more than just one) for almost half the season and are still one the top teams in the league.

Just imagine if the Lakers didn't have their X-Factor, Pao, for half a season.



Oh wait, they only had him for half the season last year and weren't that impressive without him.

If anything, the Spurs are younger and deeper this season. Last season, the Spurs were carrying tired, old baggage like Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and Damon Stoudamire. This season the Spurs replace those guys with Roger Mason, George Hill, and Drew Gooden. In other words, a huge upgrade.

It really all depends on whether Manu returns healthy. Having Tony and Tim is nice, but the Spurs will not win anything without Manu being Manu: fast, herky-jerky, clever, hard-working, clutch. Unfortunately, I don't know that we'll see X-factor Manu ever again.

Sure, your role players have gotten younger, but your main guns have gotten older...namely Manu & Duncan.

That's how time works. One year later, they're one year older. Kobe's a year older now, too! He's in his thirties!

Anyway, Duncan is almost 33, but his age is not a huge concern yet. I worry a little about his knees. Manu is 31. That might be old for Manu, given his injuries and his dependence on explosiveness. Parker is 26, in his prime.

The Spurs basically have three role players who are "old": Kurt Thomas, Michael Finley, and Bruce Bowen. Everyone else in the rotation is between the ages of 22 and 33.

So, yes, it's all about Manu. Outside of Manu, the Spurs are a better team than they were last year (or in 2007). If Manu can be that X-factor, this Spurs team is championship-caliber.

Right, but there are legitimate questions about both Manu & Duncan, whereas Kobe & Gasol are still 28 & 30, respectively, without injury issues.

Manu & Parker are excellent players, but they get too much of the focus when Spur's universe revolves around Duncan. When was the last time that he took a game over? It's been since before he missed those 3 games a few weeks ago. Especially if you're going to face the Lakers in the WCFs, Duncan has to dominate in single coverage. He hasn't looked like that sort of player for awhile now, and this is the time of year when the Spurs are usually rounding into form.

Tim Duncan cannot take over games anymore. 4-5 years ago, he had a complete post game with the over/under, a consistent bank shot and more strength that allowed him to have more patience in the key and still be able to go up strong in a crowd.

Now, all he has is that running shot and an occasional jumper. His bank shot is inconsistent. Players who stand their with their arms up and don't really move much give him a lot of trouble in the post because he doesn't use those moves anymore.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I still don't understand why people think the Spurs are no longer what they used to be.

How many games are they out of the best record in the league? 9 games. You do know that out of the top 5 teams in the NBA, no team has had more key injuries this entire season than the Spurs. They are still 2nd in the Western conference basically playing the 1st quarter of the season without one or sometimes 2 of their big 3.

Now, they are playing about another quarter of the season without their biggest X-Factor.

You guys can cry about Bynum all you want but the Spurs have been without key players (more than just one) for almost half the season and are still one the top teams in the league.

Just imagine if the Lakers didn't have their X-Factor, Pao, for half a season.



Oh wait, they only had him for half the season last year and weren't that impressive without him.

If anything, the Spurs are younger and deeper this season. Last season, the Spurs were carrying tired, old baggage like Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and Damon Stoudamire. This season the Spurs replace those guys with Roger Mason, George Hill, and Drew Gooden. In other words, a huge upgrade.

It really all depends on whether Manu returns healthy. Having Tony and Tim is nice, but the Spurs will not win anything without Manu being Manu: fast, herky-jerky, clever, hard-working, clutch. Unfortunately, I don't know that we'll see X-factor Manu ever again.

Sure, your role players have gotten younger, but your main guns have gotten older...namely Manu & Duncan.

As great as Kobe is, just imagine the Lakers without Pao. You wouldn't sniff the Championship. Makes me wonder about Lebron and that MVP.

I don't see how Manu equates to Gasol considering that you also have Tony "the one guy that JoeCool would pick to start a franchise with" Parker, right?

Manu's a slashing guard who has made a career out of kamikaze drives to the hole, and now he's in his 30's. He's hurt and slowing down? No wai! Gasol's a 28 year old big man. Apples and oranges.

It's not comparing Apples to Oranges if you are comparing their importance to the team. I am not trying to compare their type of play. Gasol's importance to the team is that guy who takes them to the next level as does Manu's importance to his team.

But anyways, without Gasol, you guys are toast. No MVP for Kobe and Lebron gets it hands down.

Hmm, imagine if Lebron had Pao, a 7ft + guy who can run the floor and finish ally-oop dunks. I still think Kobe is individually, the better scorer, but I wonder if Lebron had Jackson and Pao.

Pau would have to mainly rely on mid-range jumpers with LeBron, as he couldn't be in the lane because he'd be in LeBron's way. That's why Cleveland's big men are either pick n' pop/drive n' dish shooters (Ilgauskas, Smith) or weakside rebounders (Wallace, Varejao). That's by design. I wonder how Kobe would do next to a good PG like Mo Wiliams (so he can operate on the wing, which is where he's best) and superb defenders at each position. It goes both ways.

When Bynum was healthy last year, we were 25-11 without Gasol, which is a 69.2% winning percentage. Gasol makes us that much better, but spare me the unnecessary accolades.

Not true if Lebron was in the triangle.

Why's that? It's not like LeBron would be spacing the floor for Gasol with his awesome jumpshot, and it's not like he could dominate the ball the way that he does in Cleveland, where he's really their PG.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I still don't understand why people think the Spurs are no longer what they used to be.

How many games are they out of the best record in the league? 9 games. You do know that out of the top 5 teams in the NBA, no team has had more key injuries this entire season than the Spurs. They are still 2nd in the Western conference basically playing the 1st quarter of the season without one or sometimes 2 of their big 3.

Now, they are playing about another quarter of the season without their biggest X-Factor.

You guys can cry about Bynum all you want but the Spurs have been without key players (more than just one) for almost half the season and are still one the top teams in the league.

Just imagine if the Lakers didn't have their X-Factor, Pao, for half a season.



Oh wait, they only had him for half the season last year and weren't that impressive without him.

If anything, the Spurs are younger and deeper this season. Last season, the Spurs were carrying tired, old baggage like Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and Damon Stoudamire. This season the Spurs replace those guys with Roger Mason, George Hill, and Drew Gooden. In other words, a huge upgrade.

It really all depends on whether Manu returns healthy. Having Tony and Tim is nice, but the Spurs will not win anything without Manu being Manu: fast, herky-jerky, clever, hard-working, clutch. Unfortunately, I don't know that we'll see X-factor Manu ever again.

Sure, your role players have gotten younger, but your main guns have gotten older...namely Manu & Duncan.

As great as Kobe is, just imagine the Lakers without Pao. You wouldn't sniff the Championship. Makes me wonder about Lebron and that MVP.

I don't see how Manu equates to Gasol considering that you also have Tony "the one guy that JoeCool would pick to start a franchise with" Parker, right?

Manu's a slashing guard who has made a career out of kamikaze drives to the hole, and now he's in his 30's. He's hurt and slowing down? No wai! Gasol's a 28 year old big man. Apples and oranges.

It's not comparing Apples to Oranges if you are comparing their importance to the team. I am not trying to compare their type of play. Gasol's importance to the team is that guy who takes them to the next level as does Manu's importance to his team.

But anyways, without Gasol, you guys are toast. No MVP for Kobe and Lebron gets it hands down.

Hmm, imagine if Lebron had Pao, a 7ft + guy who can run the floor and finish ally-oop dunks. I still think Kobe is individually, the better scorer, but I wonder if Lebron had Jackson and Pao.

Pau would have to mainly rely on mid-range jumpers with LeBron, as he couldn't be in the lane because he'd be in LeBron's way. That's why Cleveland's big men are either pick n' pop/drive n' dish shooters (Ilgauskas, Smith) or weakside rebounders (Wallace, Varejao). That's by design. I wonder how Kobe would do next to a good PG like Mo Wiliams (so he can operate on the wing, which is where he's best) and superb defenders at each position. It goes both ways.

When Bynum was healthy last year, we were 25-11 without Gasol, which is a 69.2% winning percentage. Gasol makes us that much better, but spare me the unnecessary accolades.

Not true if Lebron was in the triangle.

Why's that? It's not like LeBron would be spacing the floor for Gasol with his awesome jumpshot, and it's not like he could dominate the ball the way that he does in Cleveland, where he's really their PG.

You mean like Jordan and Kobe did before they bought into the triangle.

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I still don't understand why people think the Spurs are no longer what they used to be.

How many games are they out of the best record in the league? 9 games. You do know that out of the top 5 teams in the NBA, no team has had more key injuries this entire season than the Spurs. They are still 2nd in the Western conference basically playing the 1st quarter of the season without one or sometimes 2 of their big 3.

Now, they are playing about another quarter of the season without their biggest X-Factor.

You guys can cry about Bynum all you want but the Spurs have been without key players (more than just one) for almost half the season and are still one the top teams in the league.

Just imagine if the Lakers didn't have their X-Factor, Pao, for half a season.



Oh wait, they only had him for half the season last year and weren't that impressive without him.

If anything, the Spurs are younger and deeper this season. Last season, the Spurs were carrying tired, old baggage like Robert Horry, Brent Barry, and Damon Stoudamire. This season the Spurs replace those guys with Roger Mason, George Hill, and Drew Gooden. In other words, a huge upgrade.

It really all depends on whether Manu returns healthy. Having Tony and Tim is nice, but the Spurs will not win anything without Manu being Manu: fast, herky-jerky, clever, hard-working, clutch. Unfortunately, I don't know that we'll see X-factor Manu ever again.

Sure, your role players have gotten younger, but your main guns have gotten older...namely Manu & Duncan.

That's how time works. One year later, they're one year older. Kobe's a year older now, too! He's in his thirties!

Anyway, Duncan is almost 33, but his age is not a huge concern yet. I worry a little about his knees. Manu is 31. That might be old for Manu, given his injuries and his dependence on explosiveness. Parker is 26, in his prime.

The Spurs basically have three role players who are "old": Kurt Thomas, Michael Finley, and Bruce Bowen. Everyone else in the rotation is between the ages of 22 and 33.

So, yes, it's all about Manu. Outside of Manu, the Spurs are a better team than they were last year (or in 2007). If Manu can be that X-factor, this Spurs team is championship-caliber.

Right, but there are legitimate questions about both Manu & Duncan, whereas Kobe & Gasol are still 28 & 30, respectively, without injury issues.

Manu & Parker are excellent players, but they get too much of the focus when Spur's universe revolves around Duncan. When was the last time that he took a game over? It's been since before he missed those 3 games a few weeks ago. Especially if you're going to face the Lakers in the WCFs, Duncan has to dominate in single coverage. He hasn't looked like that sort of player for awhile now, and this is the time of year when the Spurs are usually rounding into form.

Manu is the second most important player on the Spurs. And he's the only real question mark right now. Duncan and Parker are playing well enough. The bench is producing. The team is coming together.

You may think Duncan is generally declining, and, of course, you're right. This is not the Duncan of 2003. But the injury question doesn't bother me yet. Even though his statistical production has been mediocre since his return, I'm confident that he'll be ready for the playoffs based on what I've seen.

The fact that Parker has been stepping up, for once, makes me happy.

Yup, this has been completely overlooked. Parker has mastered the 17 footer and now he's hitting it in critical situations. However, the Lakers still sit back against him and he hesitates too long when deciding to just pull up and shoot against them. At the beginning of the Laker games, he tries to force the drive too much. He should start the game with the jumper, hit a few and force the Lakers to come up and THEN drive.

Originally posted by Joecool:
You mean like Jordan and Kobe did before they bought into the triangle.

Kobe was 21 years old and had started for all of one year before Jackson came along. And on a team with Shaq, Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell, etc....he was hardly "dominating the ball".

Jordan's a good comparison though. Dynamic slasher with a questionable jump shot (that he developed later). And what were all of his big men doing? Shooting jump shots. Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Bill Cartwright, Bill Wennington, James Edwards, Scott Williams....all of 'em.

Like I said, Gasol would be shooting mid-range J's if paired w/LeBron, even in the triangle.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:
You mean like Jordan and Kobe did before they bought into the triangle.

Kobe was 21 years old and had started for all of one year before Jackson came along. And on a team with Shaq, Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell, etc....he was hardly "dominating the ball".

Jordan's a good comparison though. Dynamic slasher with a questionable jump shot (that he developed later). And what were all of his big men doing? Shooting jump shots. Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Bill Cartwright, Bill Wennington, James Edwards, Scott Williams....all of 'em.

Like I said, Gasol would be shooting mid-range J's if paired w/LeBron, even in the triangle.

Ah young padewon. You seem to forget the later years Kobe had without Phil. Rudy T. years. Kobe was completely dominating the ball. It actually took him the 2nd year back with Phil to actually get back into the triangle everyone touches the ball offense.

No, Gasol would set the pick and either roll or pop and Lebron would find him either way. Gasol would also be able to pass up the pop shot and probably alley oop it to Lebron for the dunk. Gasol is a very fine tuned sidekick and understands the game entirely.

FYI, LA is the Jedi Master of NBA knowledge. JC, you're not even a padawan. I'd label you more of.............a...............Jar Jar Binks type.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
FYI, LA is the Jedi Master of NBA knowledge. JC, you're not even a padawan. I'd label you more of.............a...............Jar Jar Binks type.

You would be surprised as to how much basketball I actually know. As I told you, I talk the smack prior but analyze afterward when there is something to analyze.

I think there were a couple of people who said the Lakers don't fall back when playing the Spurs prior to that game and that's exactly what they ended up doing. I'm not going to toot my own horn but watching and breaking down an NBA game is trivial.

Comparing Kobe Bryant to Lebron is trivial also. Kobe is a scorer. Lebron is a score plus some more skills.

People tried to compare Magic to Jordan but Magic lacked a whole lot of other things when it came to trying to compare his ability to Jordan's. They were completely different players.

Lebron is like a Magic Johnson with Jordan athletic ability. Kobe may be a better scorer in crunch time but Lebron is not very far away in that area. However, Lebron is a more dominating player.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
FYI, LA is the Jedi Master of NBA knowledge. JC, you're not even a padawan. I'd label you more of.............a...............Jar Jar Binks type.

You would be surprised as to how much basketball I actually know. As I told you, I talk the smack prior but analyze afterward when there is something to analyze.

I think there were a couple of people who said the Lakers don't fall back when playing the Spurs prior to that game and that's exactly what they ended up doing. I'm not going to toot my own horn but watching and breaking down an NBA game is trivial.

For someone that has so much surprising basketball knowledge, you have a certain knack for talking out of your a$$.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
FYI, LA is the Jedi Master of NBA knowledge. JC, you're not even a padawan. I'd label you more of.............a...............Jar Jar Binks type.

You would be surprised as to how much basketball I actually know. As I told you, I talk the smack prior but analyze afterward when there is something to analyze.

I think there were a couple of people who said the Lakers don't fall back when playing the Spurs prior to that game and that's exactly what they ended up doing. I'm not going to toot my own horn but watching and breaking down an NBA game is trivial.

For someone that has so much surprising basketball knowledge, you have a certain knack for talking out of your a$$.

It just makes the actual game more interesting. Knowing that if my team loses, I'm going to have to deal with the "in your face" foo posts.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
FYI, LA is the Jedi Master of NBA knowledge. JC, you're not even a padawan. I'd label you more of.............a...............Jar Jar Binks type.

You would be surprised as to how much basketball I actually know. As I told you, I talk the smack prior but analyze afterward when there is something to analyze.

I think there were a couple of people who said the Lakers don't fall back when playing the Spurs prior to that game and that's exactly what they ended up doing. I'm not going to toot my own horn but watching and breaking down an NBA game is trivial.

Comparing Kobe Bryant to Lebron is trivial also. Kobe is a scorer. Lebron is a score plus some more skills.

People tried to compare Magic to Jordan but Magic lacked a whole lot of other things when it came to trying to compare his ability to Jordan's. They were completely different players.

Lebron is like a Magic Johnson with Jordan athletic ability. Kobe may be a better scorer in crunch time but Lebron is not very far away in that area. However, Lebron is a more dominating player.

If you know that much about basketball then how come you can't see the Spurs have no chance getting past LA in the playoffs?