***Utah Jazz Thread ***

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

But they've always seemingly had a good relationship until this. Although I've seen stuff online about Donovan not feeding him the ball when he should have this year as well so maybe it does run deeper. I was worried about this when I posted a couple weeks ago that Donovan seemed to be still pissed at him and it all turned out to be true. It's either that or Donovan is using this as an excuse to leave Utah.

IMO the NBA needs some kind of franchise tag system. It has a huge issue with star players leaving for big markets to form super teams. Smaller market teams will never compete if they're forced to draft 2-3 superstars and then keep them all together with longterm deals. Its almost impossible.

Chemistry is so important though in the NBA compared to the NFL. If a star doesn't want to be there than the team isn't gonna go anywhere in the playoffs anyways.

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

But they've always seemingly had a good relationship until this. Although I've seen stuff online about Donovan not feeding him the ball when he should have this year as well so maybe it does run deeper. I was worried about this when I posted a couple weeks ago that Donovan seemed to be still pissed at him and it all turned out to be true. It's either that or Donovan is using this as an excuse to leave Utah.

IMO the NBA needs some kind of franchise tag system. It has a huge issue with star players leaving for big markets to form super teams. Smaller market teams will never compete if they're forced to draft 2-3 superstars and then keep them all together with longterm deals. Its almost impossible.

Chemistry is so important though in the NBA compared to the NFL. If a star doesn't want to be there than the team isn't gonna go anywhere in the playoffs anyways.

The current model makes it pretty much impossible for about 50% of NBA teams to compete for a title. They dont have the ability to attract big time free agents, so they have to draft their stars, which is insanely hard. Its a proven model that you need about 3 stars to win a title, and drafting/paying 3 stars longterm is for the big boy franchises only.

But apparently the NBA is content with the big market marquee franchises winning in perpetuity, with the small market teams playing the role of the Washington Generals.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

But they've always seemingly had a good relationship until this. Although I've seen stuff online about Donovan not feeding him the ball when he should have this year as well so maybe it does run deeper. I was worried about this when I posted a couple weeks ago that Donovan seemed to be still pissed at him and it all turned out to be true. It's either that or Donovan is using this as an excuse to leave Utah.

IMO the NBA needs some kind of franchise tag system. It has a huge issue with star players leaving for big markets to form super teams. Smaller market teams will never compete if they're forced to draft 2-3 superstars and then keep them all together with longterm deals. Its almost impossible.

Chemistry is so important though in the NBA compared to the NFL. If a star doesn't want to be there than the team isn't gonna go anywhere in the playoffs anyways.

The current model makes it pretty much impossible for about 50% of NBA teams to compete for a title. They dont have the ability to attract big time free agents, so they have to draft their stars, which is insanely hard. Its a proven model that you need about 3 stars to win a title, and drafting/paying 3 stars longterm is for the big boy franchises only.

But apparently the NBA is content with the big market marquee franchises winning in perpetuity, with the small market teams playing the role of the Washington Generals.

Pretty much, the money the top teams makes the league is more important to them. Just kinda makes being a fan of a small market team pointless when you think about it.

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

But they've always seemingly had a good relationship until this. Although I've seen stuff online about Donovan not feeding him the ball when he should have this year as well so maybe it does run deeper. I was worried about this when I posted a couple weeks ago that Donovan seemed to be still pissed at him and it all turned out to be true. It's either that or Donovan is using this as an excuse to leave Utah.

IMO the NBA needs some kind of franchise tag system. It has a huge issue with star players leaving for big markets to form super teams. Smaller market teams will never compete if they're forced to draft 2-3 superstars and then keep them all together with longterm deals. Its almost impossible.

Chemistry is so important though in the NBA compared to the NFL. If a star doesn't want to be there than the team isn't gonna go anywhere in the playoffs anyways.

The current model makes it pretty much impossible for about 50% of NBA teams to compete for a title. They dont have the ability to attract big time free agents, so they have to draft their stars, which is insanely hard. Its a proven model that you need about 3 stars to win a title, and drafting/paying 3 stars longterm is for the big boy franchises only.

But apparently the NBA is content with the big market marquee franchises winning in perpetuity, with the small market teams playing the role of the Washington Generals.

Pretty much, the money the top team makes the league is more important to them. Just kinda makes being a fan of a small market team pointless when you think about it.

Yeah, between the change in the style of play and the super team culture, my interest in the NBA has dropped off a lot since the 90's.

The same small market teams repeat same cycles. Suck, win high lottery picks, draft a star, lose the star to a major market in free agency, repeat. Instead of having Anthony Davis AND Zion building the Pelicans to being a title contender, Zion just replaces Davis as the star on a crap team who will eventually leave.

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:
But they've always seemingly had a good relationship until this. Although I've seen stuff online about Donovan not feeding him the ball when he should have this year as well so maybe it does run deeper. I was worried about this when I posted a couple weeks ago that Donovan seemed to be still pissed at him and it all turned out to be true. It's either that or Donovan is using this as an excuse to leave Utah.

IMO the NBA needs some kind of franchise tag system. It has a huge issue with star players leaving for big markets to form super teams. Smaller market teams will never compete if they're forced to draft 2-3 superstars and then keep them all together with longterm deals. Its almost impossible.

Chemistry is so important though in the NBA compared to the NFL. If a star doesn't want to be there than the team isn't gonna go anywhere in the playoffs anyways.

The current model makes it pretty much impossible for about 50% of NBA teams to compete for a title. They dont have the ability to attract big time free agents, so they have to draft their stars, which is insanely hard. Its a proven model that you need about 3 stars to win a title, and drafting/paying 3 stars longterm is for the big boy franchises only.

But apparently the NBA is content with the big market marquee franchises winning in perpetuity, with the small market teams playing the role of the Washington Generals.

Pretty much, the money the top team makes the league is more important to them. Just kinda makes being a fan of a small market team pointless when you think about it.

Ya, that is the NBAs fault for allowing owners to behave like MLB owners. Too many small market teams are okay with being bad and just making money. Look at the Hornets, they didn't even offer the max to Kemba, and you never hear about them trying to sign anybody worth a crap. Players aren't gonna stick around when a franchise is ran that badly and especially when they can still get 100+ mil contracts. You need owners that care. Spurs were able to build a dynasty and they were a small market team. It's doable, but hard.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by JustinMT:
But they've always seemingly had a good relationship until this. Although I've seen stuff online about Donovan not feeding him the ball when he should have this year as well so maybe it does run deeper. I was worried about this when I posted a couple weeks ago that Donovan seemed to be still pissed at him and it all turned out to be true. It's either that or Donovan is using this as an excuse to leave Utah.

IMO the NBA needs some kind of franchise tag system. It has a huge issue with star players leaving for big markets to form super teams. Smaller market teams will never compete if they're forced to draft 2-3 superstars and then keep them all together with longterm deals. Its almost impossible.

Chemistry is so important though in the NBA compared to the NFL. If a star doesn't want to be there than the team isn't gonna go anywhere in the playoffs anyways.

The current model makes it pretty much impossible for about 50% of NBA teams to compete for a title. They dont have the ability to attract big time free agents, so they have to draft their stars, which is insanely hard. Its a proven model that you need about 3 stars to win a title, and drafting/paying 3 stars longterm is for the big boy franchises only.

But apparently the NBA is content with the big market marquee franchises winning in perpetuity, with the small market teams playing the role of the Washington Generals.

Pretty much, the money the top team makes the league is more important to them. Just kinda makes being a fan of a small market team pointless when you think about it.

Yeah, between the change in the style of play and the super team culture, my interest in the NBA has dropped off a lot since the 90's.

The same small market teams repeat same cycles. Suck, win high lottery picks, draft a star, lose the star to a major market in free agency, repeat. Instead of having Anthony Davis AND Zion building the Pelicans to being a title contender, Zion just replaces Davis as the star on a crap team who will eventually leave.

Like I said though, players aren't going to play for a bad franchise. Guys like Davis and Kemba were with their teams for 7+ years. Why wait that long to finally get get a draft pick worth a crap or try and sign a player. I can't blame those players for wanting to leave and try and win some games. Most of the players aren't like NBA owners, just content with making money and that's all. These guys want to win. Not be stuck on some s**tty franchise their whole career.

There are small market teams that still compete well and that's because they have competent owners. Portland, Utah, Nuggets. And look at the Clippers, they finally got an owner that gives a s**t and now star players want to play there. But most owners don't want to go over the luxury tax and do what's needed. GS did that as well and look how their franchise turned around. They were a big market team, but for many years most players didn't want to play there bc of how badly it was ran.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Like I said though, players aren't going to play for a bad franchise. Guys like Davis and Kemba were with their teams for 7+ years. Why wait that long to finally get get a draft pick worth a crap or try and sign a player. I can't blame those players for wanting to leave and try and win some games. Most of the players aren't like NBA owners, just content with making money and that's all. These guys want to win. Not be stuck on some s**tty franchise their whole career.

There are small market teams that still compete well and that's because they have competent owners. Portland, Utah, Nuggets. And look at the Clippers, they finally got an owner that gives a s**t and now star players want to play there. But most owners don't want to go over the luxury tax and do what's needed. GS did that as well and look how their franchise turned around. They were a big market team, but for many years most players didn't want to play there bc of how badly it was ran.

How are small market teams supposed to compete for titles and draw free agent interest? Portland, Utah, and Denver are usually playoff teams....who get beat in round 2 because they don't have enough talent to compete for the title. They're stuck in no mans land. Not good enough for a title, not bad enough for the lottery. Its a terrible system of have's and have not's.

The teams who win are the teams who play in markets that players want to be in. Utah has to draft 100% of its stars. No
star would ever sign with Utah, regardless of the money. They have too many better options in places like LA, NY, Miami, etc. They're at a competitive disadvantage, with no competitive balance from the league.

Crappy small market teams cant dig out of the hole because they cant afford to retain drafted stars AND outbid big markets for additional stars to build title contending rosters.

50 of the 73 titles have been won by just 5 franchises. That's unbelievable. The parity is non-existent.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Like I said though, players aren't going to play for a bad franchise. Guys like Davis and Kemba were with their teams for 7+ years. Why wait that long to finally get get a draft pick worth a crap or try and sign a player. I can't blame those players for wanting to leave and try and win some games. Most of the players aren't like NBA owners, just content with making money and that's all. These guys want to win. Not be stuck on some s**tty franchise their whole career.

There are small market teams that still compete well and that's because they have competent owners. Portland, Utah, Nuggets. And look at the Clippers, they finally got an owner that gives a s**t and now star players want to play there. But most owners don't want to go over the luxury tax and do what's needed. GS did that as well and look how their franchise turned around. They were a big market team, but for many years most players didn't want to play there bc of how badly it was ran.

How are small market teams supposed to compete for titles and draw free agent interest? Portland, Utah, and Denver are usually playoff teams....who get beat in round 2 because they don't have enough talent to compete for the title. They're stuck in no mans land. Not good enough for a title, not bad enough for the lottery. Its a terrible system of have's and have not's.

The teams who win are the teams who play in markets that players want to be in. Utah has to draft 100% of its stars. No
star would ever sign with Utah, regardless of the money. They have too many better options in places like LA, NY, Miami, etc. They're at a competitive disadvantage, with no competitive balance from the league.

Crappy small market teams cant dig out of the hole because they cant afford to retain drafted stars AND outbid big markets for additional stars to build title contending rosters.

50 of the 73 titles have been won by just 5 franchises. That's unbelievable. The parity is non-existent.

Nets and the Knicks have been a mess for many years now. Nets finally got lucky. And Miami isn't a big FA destination either. They got lucky that Bron and Bosh were friends with Wade.

Especially with the Knicks, that's where the big market theory is flawed. No bigger market than the Knicks and they can't get anyone worth a crap to sign there. Why? It goes back to my original point. NBA players want to win. Most of them care about that more than being in a big market. That's why Boston has been able to be successful for such a long time. There are much bigger markets than Boston but they managed to stay relevant for decades now. Great owners that care about winning.

Why didn't players sign with the Clippers for so many years? That's a big market...But now they have a great owner and a lot stars want to play there now. Once again, Spurs were able to build a dynasty and that's as small market as it gets. Teams like Charlotte can't compete bc they are okay with just making a profit and not trying to win anything. Players don't want to go there. AD wanted out of NO because if took them 7 years to finally get a good draft pick even though they sucked every year lol.

Obviously it helps to be a bigger market, but the most important part is having really good owners that want to win. That's where the NBA fails, too many bad owners in the league right now.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Nets and the Knicks have been a mess for many years now. Nets finally got lucky. And Miami isn't a big FA destination either. They got lucky that Bron and Bosh were friends with Wade.

Especially with the Knicks, that's where the big market theory is flawed. No bigger market than the Knicks and they can't get anyone worth a crap to sign there. Why? It goes back to my original point. NBA players want to win. Most of them care about that more than being in a big market. That's why Boston has been able to be successful for such a long time. There are much bigger markets than Boston but they managed to stay relevant for decades now. Great owners that care about winning.

Why didn't players sign with the Clippers for so many years? That's a big market...But now they have a great owner and a lot stars want to play there now. Once again, Spurs were able to build a dynasty and that's as small market as it gets. Teams like Charlotte can't compete bc they are okay with just making a profit and not trying to win anything. Players don't want to go there. AD wanted out of NO because if took them 7 years to finally get a good draft pick even though they sucked every year lol.

Obviously it helps to be a bigger market, but the most important part is having really good owners that want to win. That's where the NBA fails, too many bad owners in the league right now.

I never said being in a big market guaranteed you success. I said all the teams that DO maintain success in building championship level contenders pretty much play in the big markets, which are desirable places to play. The only time players have congregated to a smaller, crappy city is Cleveland, and thats just because LeBron was from there.

The Knicks have been a dumpster fire for decades because their owner is clueless, and has created the ultimate dysfunctional environment. The Nets got lucky? Or did Durant and Kyrie want to go to NYC...Picking Brooklyn over Sacramento wasnt luck, it was market.

The Clippers are actually a great example to prove my point. They were trash for years under bad ownership, but because of their market, have been able to assemble a star studded title contender. Its LA. Players want to be there. You think Kawhi and Paul George would've set up shop in Denver? Stars will get max deals regardless, so they're going to play in a city they want to be in. Period.

A LOT of superstars will stay with their original team if the owner and FO are elite. An elite player expects and deserves that. Of course, it is harder to attract FAs in a smaller market.

If owners really want the smaller market teams to have a shot at superstars - get rid of max contracts while keeping cap in place. The top guys will earn a LOT more than 30-40M a year...and it'll be almost impossible to have two superstars on 1 roster.

With players increasingly controlling their own destinies and creating dynamic duos/ trios it's much tougher for a squad like Utah since they're never going to recruit any elite player. The big market stuff is a bit overblown in that if you draft well like GS, SA you can overcome it but the stars really got to align there.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

With players increasingly controlling their own destinies and creating dynamic duos/ trios it's much tougher for a squad like Utah since they're never going to recruit any elite player. The big market stuff is a bit overblown in that if you draft well like GS, SA you can overcome it but the stars really got to align there.

GS is a big market though. The Spurs got lucky enough to draft a top 10 all time player and pair him with the arguably the greatest coach ever. That model isn't realistic for other teams.

Its pretty much impossible to draft 3 stars, build a supporting cast around them, and pay them all longterm in the modern era if you're a small market city. The odds are astronomically low. The one time it nearly happened is in OKC, but they stupidly decided to trade Harden, and KD left for a bigger market. Most of the time guys want the opportunity of bigger and better things.

David Aldridge of The Athletic:

There have been rumblings well before either of them contracted coronavirus that the Jazz were growing weary of Gobert. Not that they were actively shopping him or trying to get rid of him, but that he might be more available than you'd think a Defensive Player of the Year and guy who is such an anchor would be. It will not surprise me if Utah moves on after this season."


Wtf?