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Originally posted by DaBum:Actually, no I wont. I will continue to debate with people I choose to debate with any time I want. Got it? Cool.
Ozzie is the best defensive SS. As good as Molina is, he isn't close to being the best defensive catcher of all time.
You can ignore WAR completely but please refrain from entering these discussions if you're going to ignore vital stats for comparing players.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Career WAR means nothing to me.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Career WAR means nothing to me.
Are there any statistics that DO matter to you when discussing and/or comparing the careers of players?
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Sure. All Star appearances, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, Batting Titles, OBP. In the case of catchers, % of caught stealing is a big one. Molina, like Bench and Pudge basically shut down opposing running games with their arms.
Anyway, I am done with this. I gave my opinion that Molina should eventually be elected although certainly not on the first ballot. Obviously you disagree and thats fine. I just think that I weigh Molina's defense more than you do in this.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Sure. All Star appearances, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, Batting Titles, OBP. In the case of catchers, % of caught stealing is a big one. Molina, like Bench and Pudge basically shut down opposing running games with their arms.
Anyway, I am done with this. I gave my opinion that Molina should eventually be elected although certainly not on the first ballot. Obviously you disagree and thats fine. I just think that I weigh Molina's defense more than you do in this.
Would you find it more appalling if he didn't get in than Edgar Martinez not getting in? Or similar?
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:I think they are both deserving. Edgar was an elite hitter who certainly wasnt a great fielder when he did play a position. Lots of great hitters in the Hall werent great fielders though. I wouldnt hold that against him. What I will find wrong is if Ortiz makes the HOF and Edgar is left out. Dont reward one great DH and leave out another.
Originally posted by DaBum:Ozzie is the best defensive SS. As good as Molina is, he isn't close to being the best defensive catcher of all time.
You can ignore WAR completely but please refrain from entering these discussions if you're going to ignore vital stats for comparing players.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Career WAR means nothing to me.
Are there any statistics that DO matter to you when discussing and/or comparing the careers of players?
Sure. All Star appearances, Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers, Batting Titles, OBP. In the case of catchers, % of caught stealing is a big one. Molina, like Bench and Pudge basically shut down opposing running games with their arms.
Anyway, I am done with this. I gave my opinion that Molina should eventually be elected although certainly not on the first ballot. Obviously you disagree and thats fine. I just think that I weigh Molina's defense more than you do in this.
Originally posted by Zachary:All star appearances no longer hold much value for any sport IMO
Originally posted by Niners99:Originally posted by Zachary:All star appearances no longer hold much value for any sport IMO
I more or less agree with that. Particularly in baseball where its voted on by fans from May through June. You dont get a very good idea of who the best guys were that year, just who were the most popular and playing well in the 1st half.
Originally posted by Niners99:Originally posted by DaBum:Ozzie is the best defensive SS. As good as Molina is, he isn't close to being the best defensive catcher of all time.
You can ignore WAR completely but please refrain from entering these discussions if you're going to ignore vital stats for comparing players.
As much as I hate to be on the pro-Molina side of anything in here, how do you figure that hes not even close to being the best defensive catcher ever?
BTW, you wouldn't happen to live in a big house overlooking the ocean filled with high end cars, and be the smartest person on this message board, would you?
Originally posted by DaBum:Because there's a guy named Pudge who he has no shot at catching.
Originally posted by Niners99:Originally posted by DaBum:Because there's a guy named Pudge who he has no shot at catching.
Thats fair, but Pudge did roids, and will never make the HOF, so Molina becomes the de facto 'best defensive catcher', at least of people that current voters saw.
Originally posted by DaBum:Originally posted by Niners99:Originally posted by DaBum:Because there's a guy named Pudge who he has no shot at catching.
Thats fair, but Pudge did roids, and will never make the HOF, so Molina becomes the de facto 'best defensive catcher', at least of people that current voters saw.
He's already in the HOF.
1st ballot too