***2024 MLB Regular Season Thread*** | Page 495

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jrg:
Not EVERY DAY. In the past, he has started nearly started 7 days of a week at times, but I do think Knizner should be mixed in more (which the Cardinals are doing this year).

Currently Molina has 84 plate appearances to Knizner's 56. In the past, Knizner would have like 20 to Molina's 100+.

BUT, with that said, stuff like this video alone show why he should still be getting the bulk of it. More to the game than just what you do at the plate.

Like just the beginning of this video alone. Marmol comes out and the team meets together. Look at who takes charge. You won't get that out of Knizner. Yadi has been around for nearly 20 years. Over the past 10 or so, he basically has been the teams 2nd manager.

EDIT: And regarding the "one of those Cardinals fans"....uh you mean 99.9% of them? Those who actually watch them and see what goes on? Yes,I am once of "those" Cardinals fans who believe Yadi should be out there the bulk of the time. There are those few out there that think Knizner needs to be the main guy, but those people ONLY say that because they're frustrated with his offensive dropoff. More to just that.

I know that Knizner has gotten more time this year than before. And I am very aware that there is more to catching that just batting LOL. That didnt even need to be said. But the whole point is, if Knizner is supposed to be the catcher of the future, the less he plays, the longer it is going to take him to develop. Now, if you guys dont think he is that CotF, then my point is moot and how much he plays doesnt matter unless he is substantially better than Yadi already.

Yes, Yadi's leadership as a 20 year vet is better than Knizners. But leadership can develop. And playing will help that development. That is why I am ok with Joey Bart playing every day. Yeah, he sucks now and probably deserves to be in AAA. But IF he is going to be the guy of the future, he needs to play to develop. Sitting isnt helping.

As far as your 99.9% thing, you know damn well that the bulk of those people dont know the game like you and I. The majority of the people who want Yadi to keep playing are the casual fans who are wrapped up in nostalgia. Its not just that Knizner is a massive upgrade at the plate. Its that Yadi's defense isnt what it was. And its that developing Knizner is more important than nostalgia. Thats why it doesnt matter if the majority of your fanbase wants Yadi to keep playing.

Well first off, I personally don't think Knizner is the catcher of the future. Few years away from being 30. I think he is a stop gap until Ivan Herrera takes over as THE guy. Currently the Cardinals #4 prospect. (Jordan Walker #1, Nolan Gorman #2, Matthew Liberatore #3, Ivan Herrera #4).

Sure, leadership can develop and honestly Knizner has some of it. He has shown some of that, but it just isn't on the level of what Yadi provides. Bart and Knizner are in different spots though. If you guys still had Posey, you'd be in the same spot as St. Louis. Posey would be the man out there.

True, but again, going back to the first point I personally just don't think Knizner is THE guy. Once Yadi retires, he'll be the starter for a year or so and then I think if Herrera pans out, HE will be the man. Also, this year of course the Cardinals are doing the Pujols/Yadi/Wainwright farewell tour. Sometimes Knizner should be out there, but then again from a business perspective, Yadi puts asses in seats. The biggest thing I think Yadi should be in there is....does Knizner being the starter over the next few years outweigh the other intagibles Yadi brings? I personally don't think so. Its too close. If Knizner was 23 and had a bright future and was this young stud to be the catcher of the future? Sure. But he is 27, and has shown he is ALRIGHT....AND has Herrera right there on his ass. MLB.com has an ETA of 22 for him.

Herrera has been pushed so aggressively since signing with the Cardinals for $200,000 out of Panama in July 2016 that it's important to remember he'll still only be 22 on 2022 Minor League Opening Day. He hit at least .330 in each of his first two seasons, produced a solid .284/.374/.405 over 106 games at two A-ball levels in 2019 and earned a 40-man spot in November 2020 after standing out at the alternate training site.

The right-handed slugger's .231 average at Double-A Springfield last season may seem like a steep drop, but it was driven in part by a .261 BABIP that was considerably lower than Herrera's career numbers. He still took plenty of walks (13.7 percent BB rate) and showed improved ability to tap into above-average raw power with a career-best 17 homers in 98 games. In all, he was a league-average bat in a circuit where he was three years younger than the norm. Herrera can typically control the zone well -- no surprise for a catcher with a good eye -- and was starting to barrel balls better as 2021 wore on. He is a candidate to bat in the upper-.200s at the top level, should that trajectory continue.

St. Louis officials have long been enthused by Herrera's defensive growth and the work he's put in on that side. His blocking has gotten better in the last two years, but there is still room to improve in that area. Once put on a throwing program by the Cardinals, Herrera now projects to have an above-average arm behind the plate. The Cardinals haven't needed a Yadier Molina replacement yet, but they will after 2022. With solid tools across the board, Herrera could be the guy.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/cardinals/