2017 NBA Off-Season Thread

How can Boston make all these moves for Hayward without obvious tampering? They're not allowed to speak with him are they?

I could be wrong though.

Originally posted by Jiks:
How can Boston make all these moves for Hayward without obvious tampering? They're not allowed to speak with him are they?

I could be wrong though.

I believe all free agents are fair game right now

Originally posted by Knowledge:

I believe all free agents are fair game right now

Hayward is still a Jazzman until he opts out though.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Boston/Indiana blockbuster on deck according to Woj.

Link?

George will definitely not sign a 3 year extension or any extension right now. That'll make no sense for him. Don't care what any report says - he'll lose 10s of millions of dollars by signing any extension with anyone right now.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Boston/Indiana blockbuster on deck according to Woj.

Link?

George will definitely not sign a 3 year extension or any extension right now. That'll make no sense for him. Don't care what any report says - he'll lose 10s of millions of dollars by signing any extension with anyone right now.

How would he lose money? I thought you get more money from the team youre currently under contract with than becoming a free agent?

Originally posted by Knowledge:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Boston/Indiana blockbuster on deck according to Woj.

Link?

George will definitely not sign a 3 year extension or any extension right now. That'll make no sense for him. Don't care what any report says - he'll lose 10s of millions of dollars by signing any extension with anyone right now.

How would he lose money? I thought you get more money from the team youre currently under contract with than becoming a free agent?

Now, he can always tell Celtics - I promise I'll opt out in summer and re-sign with you. But, his agent should be fired if he were to extend right now and then get traded to Celtics.

More info on the link: https://sports.yahoo.com/paul-george-gordon-hayward-celtics-185024671.html

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Westbrook fully deserved his MVP.

Amazing season. IMO he was the most fun player to watch this last season.

Gotta respect him for the way he fought all season long. I think NBA fans will remember this season from him for a long time.

Its amazing what a star player can do when he takes every shot, and his teammates box guys out so he can take the rebounds.

So why didn't other guards from opposing teams crashed the glass to stop Westbrook?

He had 10+ assists a game...so he passed quite a bit too. Dude had the greatest individual season of all time...I don't know how anyone can hate on that. Or are you joking again...because I really can't tell.

Im not saying he isnt a great player, but hes in an environment that was set up to let him do everything. This season was all about him flipping off Durant. The way they ran their team wasn't going to put them in a position to contend. It was a one man show. It very much felt like it was just his personal vendetta to average a triple double and prove that Durant didnt make him.

Its an impressive feat, but theres a context to it. I don't believe that winning was his number 1 priority this year.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Westbrook fully deserved his MVP.

Amazing season. IMO he was the most fun player to watch this last season.

Gotta respect him for the way he fought all season long. I think NBA fans will remember this season from him for a long time.

Its amazing what a star player can do when he takes every shot, and his teammates box guys out so he can take the rebounds.

So why didn't other guards from opposing teams crashed the glass to stop Westbrook?

He had 10+ assists a game...so he passed quite a bit too. Dude had the greatest individual season of all time...I don't know how anyone can hate on that. Or are you joking again...because I really can't tell.

Im not saying he isnt a great player, but hes in an environment that was set up to let him do everything. This season was all about him flipping off Durant. The way they ran their team wasn't going to put them in a position to contend. It was a one man show. It very much felt like it was just his personal vendetta to average a triple double and prove that Durant didnt make him.

Its an impressive feat, but theres a context to it. I don't believe that winning was his number 1 priority this year.

This. There's no way I'd consider this the best season ever. I probably would have voted for Kawhi Leonard for MVP this year. At the end of the day, I'll take a player who is trying to win games over a player who intentionally gives up open shots on defense to get in position for rebounds and whose teammates give him rebounds to help him pad his stats.

Lebron had half a dozen seasons which were more impressive than Westbrook's 2016 season. He averaged a higher PER in 2008, 2009, 2011, and 2012 and had more win shares in 11 of his 14 seasons than Westbrook had in 2016-2017. Westbrook's numbers are impressive, but he didn't play much defense this year, his teammates boxed out and intentionally gave him any 50-50 rebounds, and he padded his defensive rebounds on opponent FT attempts (you won't see him ever box out the FT shooter).

His stats are impressive because of his ridiculous usage rate which he was able to sustain by resting on defense. His 55% True Shooting % is mediocre and he averaged 5.6 turnovers per game. The scoring and assists are impressive, the rebounding has to take into consideration his teammates giving him rebounds, and his defense was nonexistent at times.

Jordan's 1990-1991 season may be the most impressive ever, especially if you count the playoffs as part of that season. Westbrook's 2016-2017 season isn't even close.

It's possible no one will average a triple double again for an entire season, but you're kidding yourself if you think Westbrook added more value to the Thunder this year than Jordan did in the 90's and Lebron added to the Cavs in 2008 and 2009. Lebron carried that Cavs team and put up better stats than Westbrook in the flow of the game while playing on both ends of the floor. His focus and the focus of his teammates was on winning too while the Thunder have been focused on padding Westbrook's stats all year for whatever reason.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Westbrook fully deserved his MVP.

Amazing season. IMO he was the most fun player to watch this last season.

Gotta respect him for the way he fought all season long. I think NBA fans will remember this season from him for a long time.

Its amazing what a star player can do when he takes every shot, and his teammates box guys out so he can take the rebounds.

So why didn't other guards from opposing teams crashed the glass to stop Westbrook?

He had 10+ assists a game...so he passed quite a bit too. Dude had the greatest individual season of all time...I don't know how anyone can hate on that. Or are you joking again...because I really can't tell.

Im not saying he isnt a great player, but hes in an environment that was set up to let him do everything. This season was all about him flipping off Durant. The way they ran their team wasn't going to put them in a position to contend. It was a one man show. It very much felt like it was just his personal vendetta to average a triple double and prove that Durant didnt make him.

Its an impressive feat, but theres a context to it. I don't believe that winning was his number 1 priority this year.

This. There's no way I'd consider this the best season ever. I probably would have voted for Kawhi Leonard for MVP this year. At the end of the day, I'll take a player who is trying to win games over a player who intentionally gives up open shots on defense to get in position for rebounds and whose teammates give him rebounds to help him pad his stats.

Lebron had half a dozen seasons which were more impressive than Westbrook's 2016 season. He averaged a higher PER in 2008, 2009, 2011, and 2012 and had more win shares in 11 of his 14 seasons than Westbrook had in 2016-2017. Westbrook's numbers are impressive, but he didn't play much defense this year, his teammates boxed out and intentionally gave him any 50-50 rebounds, and he padded his defensive rebounds on opponent FT attempts (you won't see him ever box out the FT shooter).

His stats are impressive because of his ridiculous usage rate which he was able to sustain by resting on defense. His 55% True Shooting % is mediocre and he averaged 5.6 turnovers per game. The scoring and assists are impressive, the rebounding has to take into consideration his teammates giving him rebounds, and his defense was nonexistent at times.

Jordan's 1990-1991 season may be the most impressive ever, especially if you count the playoffs as part of that season. Westbrook's 2016-2017 season isn't even close.

It's possible no one will average a triple double again for an entire season, but you're kidding yourself if you think Westbrook added more value to the Thunder this year than Jordan did in the 90's and Lebron added to the Cavs in 2008 and 2009. Lebron carried that Cavs team and put up better stats than Westbrook in the flow of the game while playing on both ends of the floor. His focus and the focus of his teammates was on winning too while the Thunder have been focused on padding Westbrook's stats all year for whatever reason.

the fact that he is being compared to Jordan and Lebron shows how impressive his season was.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
the fact that he is being compared to Jordan and Lebron shows how impressive his season was.

His 2016-2017 season is a mediocre/bad season for Jordan and Lebron though. So was Kawhi's 2016-2017 season. People are overreacting to the accomplishment of averaging a triple double. It's impressive no doubt, but he could have won more games for them by playing defense instead of going for rebounds to try to get triple doubles every night. Westbrook's teammates deserve credit for a lot of those rebounds too.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Westbrook fully deserved his MVP.

Amazing season. IMO he was the most fun player to watch this last season.

Gotta respect him for the way he fought all season long. I think NBA fans will remember this season from him for a long time.

Its amazing what a star player can do when he takes every shot, and his teammates box guys out so he can take the rebounds.

So why didn't other guards from opposing teams crashed the glass to stop Westbrook?

He had 10+ assists a game...so he passed quite a bit too. Dude had the greatest individual season of all time...I don't know how anyone can hate on that. Or are you joking again...because I really can't tell.

Im not saying he isnt a great player, but hes in an environment that was set up to let him do everything. This season was all about him flipping off Durant. The way they ran their team wasn't going to put them in a position to contend. It was a one man show. It very much felt like it was just his personal vendetta to average a triple double and prove that Durant didnt make him.

Its an impressive feat, but theres a context to it. I don't believe that winning was his number 1 priority this year.

How many wins OKC was expected to have before the start of the season?

I think OKC over-achieved as a team. They were devasted by last off-season and still won 47 games. With Durant - they won 55 games the previous year.

I think Westbrook carried this team to 47 wins. That's very impressive.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
the fact that he is being compared to Jordan and Lebron shows how impressive his season was.

His 2016-2017 season is a mediocre/bad season for Jordan and Lebron though. So was Kawhi's 2016-2017 season. People are overreacting to the accomplishment of averaging a triple double. It's impressive no doubt, but he could have won more games for them by playing defense instead of going for rebounds to try to get triple doubles every night. Westbrook's teammates deserve credit for a lot of those rebounds too.

sure, comparing his season to 2 top 3/5 players will down play it.

But he balled out hard this year, his motor was on another level and Leonard and Harden have arguments for the MVP.

but russell had a strong argument too.

i wouldnt be mad if Harden and Westbrook were co MVPS, but not surprised he got it to himself.

wasnt perfect season for sure, lots of it forced.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
the fact that he is being compared to Jordan and Lebron shows how impressive his season was.

His 2016-2017 season is a mediocre/bad season for Jordan and Lebron though. So was Kawhi's 2016-2017 season. People are overreacting to the accomplishment of averaging a triple double. It's impressive no doubt, but he could have won more games for them by playing defense instead of going for rebounds to try to get triple doubles every night. Westbrook's teammates deserve credit for a lot of those rebounds too.

sure, comparing his season to 2 top 3/5 players will down play it.

But he balled out hard this year, his motor was on another level and Leonard and Harden have arguments for the MVP.

but russell had a strong argument too.

i wouldnt be mad if Harden and Westbrook were co MVPS, but not surprised he got it to himself.

wasnt perfect season for sure, lots of it forced.

I agree with that - they all had MVP type seasons. I wanted Leonard or Westbrook to win the MVP. I just didn't agree with 4ML's statement that this was the greatest individual season of all time.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
the fact that he is being compared to Jordan and Lebron shows how impressive his season was.

His 2016-2017 season is a mediocre/bad season for Jordan and Lebron though. So was Kawhi's 2016-2017 season. People are overreacting to the accomplishment of averaging a triple double. It's impressive no doubt, but he could have won more games for them by playing defense instead of going for rebounds to try to get triple doubles every night. Westbrook's teammates deserve credit for a lot of those rebounds too.

sure, comparing his season to 2 top 3/5 players will down play it.

But he balled out hard this year, his motor was on another level and Leonard and Harden have arguments for the MVP.

but russell had a strong argument too.

i wouldnt be mad if Harden and Westbrook were co MVPS, but not surprised he got it to himself.

wasnt perfect season for sure, lots of it forced.

I agree with that - they all had MVP type seasons. I wanted Leonard or Westbrook to win the MVP. I just didn't agree with 4ML's statement that this was the greatest individual season of all time.

ahh i agree with you.....

statistically great ...... but definitely context to it

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

I agree with that - they all had MVP type seasons. I wanted Leonard or Westbrook to win the MVP. I just didn't agree with 4ML's statement that this was the greatest individual season of all time.

I did say greatest individual season...and maybe I should have been more clear and said statistically.

If you adjust his stats for pace - his stats blow away anything Oscar ever did while playing 35mpg. Oscar played over 43-44 mpg and with 125+ possessions per 48 minutes to get his triple double season.