2017 NBA Off-Season Thread

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by nothing03:
Boston lost IT, Bradley, Crowder, Olynk, Amir Johnson, Jerebko, and etc. replaces it with Kyrie, Hayward, Morris and Tatum. While the Cavaliers lost Kyrie, Goat Jame Jones and D. Williams replaces by IT, D. Rose, Jeff Green and Crowder. This is a new Celtics team while the Cavs starting lineup only made 1 changes in addition they got deeper bench compare to last year. Don't forget the Cavs still have Lebron. Do you really think Hayward, Tatum, Morris and Brown can stop Lebron?

Boston got better, Cleveland got a little worse. Either team is still getting their s**t pushed in by Golden State.

I agree with this.

Cleveland also saves a bunch of money, and got a future draft pick so its like they traded a quarter with 4 dimes.

Originally posted by titan:

Boston will beat Cleveland...story ends there. Golden State will murder whoever makes it out of the East.

You think?

At least they shook things up a bit.. will make it a bit interesting come playoff time

The opinion that Cleveland got worse is laugahble to me.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
The opinion that Cleveland got worse is laugahble to me.

imo they are stagnant. IT is damn good but he is basically a shorter kyrie with worse defense. Crowder is a good player but we will see if his effectiveness is due to brad stevens coaching or himself. They set themselves up nicely for the future with the Brooklyn pick. But with the quality of the east Brooklyn might mess around and go to the playoffs haha

Saying that Kyrie Irving is better at defense than Isaiah Thomas, is like saying Steph Curry is better at shooting than Klay Thompson.

It is essentially a wash.

Originally posted by bayarealuv:

Originally posted by titan:

Boston will beat Cleveland...story ends there. Golden State will murder whoever makes it out of the East.

You think?

At least they shook things up a bit.. will make it a bit interesting come playoff time

I just think that Rose and Thomas will be stagnant due to the amount of offense thats needs to be shared. I think it will be tough for both of them to be on their game at the same time. Like last year when Korver was hot, Smith was missing...IMHO they will coast through some games due to the amount of talent they have, but when it's team ball time the timing will be off.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Saying that Kyrie Irving is better at defense than Isaiah Thomas, is like saying Steph Curry is better at shooting than Klay Thompson.

It is essentially a wash.

Kyrie can actually play defense----when he wants to. We've seen that in the Finals. Isaiah is a massive defensive liability everytime he is out on the floor.


Boston got the best player in the deal. The most valuable asset that Cleveland got was that unprotected pick from Brooklyn, which isnt doing anything for them this season.

^ First of all, no, I dont agree that we saw that in the Finals. Kyrie swtiched onto many different Warriora throughout the Finals...and that Warrior scored at will. I saw nothing in the Finals that told me "Kyrie can actually play defense." He cant, nor did he. Kyrie is a HUGE defensive liability. As much as Isaiah? Not quite. But still a horrendous defender.

I have still yet to find someone who can give me reasons as to why Kyrie is better than IT. Because he is slightly better defensively? Point guard for point guard, this is a lateral move. Throw in the fact that they got Crowder and a top 5 pick? This is a major win for the Cavs.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

^ First of all, no, I dont agree that we saw that in the Finals. Kyrie swtiched onto many different Warriora throughout the Finals...and that Warrior scored at will. I saw nothing in the Finals that told me "Kyrie can actually play defense." He cant, nor did he. Kyrie is a HUGE defensive liability. As much as Isaiah? Not quite. But still a horrendous defender.

I have still yet to find someone who can give me reasons as to why Kyrie is better than IT. Because he is slightly better defensively? Point guard for point guard, this is a lateral move. Throw in the fact that they got Crowder and a top 5 pick? This is a major win for the Cavs.

Kyrie and IT is a wash? You aren't serious are you?

A 28 (will turn 29 in February) Isaiah coming off a hip injury is as good as Kyrie at 25? Nahh I'm not buying that one bit.

Long term are you giving a max contract to Isaiah at 29 for 4-5 years? That's the decision the Cavs have on their hands.

Overall I think the trade worked out well for both teams and equally for both teams. Boston still have a ton of picks and they have a really nice nucleus in Kyrie, Hayward and Horford, with promising guys in Brown and Tatum and multiple upcoming 1st round picks.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

^ First of all, no, I dont agree that we saw that in the Finals. Kyrie swtiched onto many different Warriora throughout the Finals...and that Warrior scored at will. I saw nothing in the Finals that told me "Kyrie can actually play defense." He cant, nor did he. Kyrie is a HUGE defensive liability. As much as Isaiah? Not quite. But still a horrendous defender.

I have still yet to find someone who can give me reasons as to why Kyrie is better than IT. Because he is slightly better defensively? Point guard for point guard, this is a lateral move. Throw in the fact that they got Crowder and a top 5 pick? This is a major win for the Cavs.

Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree. You might be the only one on Earth who believes that swapping Kyrie for IT is a lateral move.


Kyrie is a better player than Isaiah. Defensively alone he is quite a bit better than IT who will always be a massive liability. Boston went from a guy they were hesitant to give a long term deal to, who they very well might have allowed to walkand got back a legit franchise quality player that they can build around. In the short term they got better, in the long term they got better.


In the short term Cleveland got worse, in the long term Cleveland might get the better end of the deal depending on who they draft but in terms of the players traded I will take Irving over IT and a solid role player everyday.

I ordinarily wouldnt have a problem agreeing to disagree, but in this case, your side of the argument is nothing more than a narrative. You have not backed up a thing you have said with any sort of tangible evidence. You keep saying that Kyrie is "quite a bit" better than Isaiah on defense. Well stats dont back this up. They are both pathetic defenders. In 2015, Isaiah was statistically BETTER than Kyrie. Last season, Kyrie was better than Isaiah. But they were both at the bottom of the barrel in defensive metrics.

What Kyrie and Isaiah do the best is score. Well, Isaiah scores more efficiently, and does so without the luxury of playing next to one of the best players in the history of basketball.

And people keep bringing up Isaiah's hip injury. Great. Kyrie has played ONE full healthy season since his senior year of high school. So please miss me on the "Isaiah has an injury" stuff.

I would have no problem agreeing to disagree, provided your side of the argument was more than stories and adjectives.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree. You might be the only one on Earth who believes that swapping Kyrie for IT is a lateral move.

Kyrie is a better player than Isaiah. Defensively alone he is quite a bit better than IT who will always be a massive liability. Boston went from a guy they were hesitant to give a long term deal to, who they very well might have allowed to walkand got back a legit franchise quality player that they can build around. In the short term they got better, in the long term they got better.

In the short term Cleveland got worse, in the long term Cleveland might get the better end of the deal depending on who they draft but in terms of the players traded I will take Irving over IT and a solid role player everyday.

I read a comment that put it perfectly: Kyrie can play defense, but won't and IT wants to play defense but can't. For what it's worth, I'd much rather have Kyrie than IT also.

I also believe that Kyrie's worth is far greater than that of Thomas. IT is a joke on defense, 3 years older, coming off a hip injury, and now has been traded 3 times and will be playing for his 4th team. Kyrie would never have been traded if he hadn't demanded it.

Saying Thomas and Irving is a wash is silly. There is no NBA executive alive that would take IT over Kyrie straight up. NONE

Despite the fact that I believe Kyrie is the far better player, I still think it was a good deal for Cleveland simply because of the #1 pick that will almost certainly be a top 5 pick. With Lebron likely leaving they needed to get a young stud for the future. I seriously doubt they ever could have gotten a better deal than this one.

Good trade for both sides in my opinion.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I also believe that Kyrie's worth is far greater than that of Thomas. IT is a joke on defense, 3 years older, coming off a hip injury, and now has been traded 3 times and will be playing for his 4th team. Kyrie would never have been traded if he hadn't demanded it.

Saying Thomas and Irving is a wash is silly. There is no NBA executive alive that would take IT over Kyrie straight up. NONE

Nice that you are arguing with yourself on this one....as there hasnt been a person in this thread who has said that.