When all is said and done the NBA GOAT is..........

For all of you that say Russell was not on the list for GOAT, did any of you actually see him play? And to the person that said he played against YMCA white guys, here's a list of some of the dudes he played against, Elgin Baylor, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, the Big O, Willis Reed, Bob Petit, Dave Bing, Jerry West, Bad Luke Jackson, Chet the Jet Walker, Hal Greer, Walt Bellamy, Gus Honeycomb Johnson, Walt Frazier, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Zelmo Beatty, Paul Silas, Sweet Lou Hudson, Billy C, Lenny Wilkins, there's dozens more.

PS, Stoney, did you ever see Bill Russell play, yeah I thought so.

Originally posted by Furlow:
So Yogi Berra is the greatest baseball player of all time, then? 10 World Series championships. Lol ridiculous.

No, Frank Crosetti 17 rings.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by Furlow:

So Yogi Berra is the greatest baseball player of all time, then? 10 World Series championships. Lol ridiculous.

No, Frank Crosetti 17 rings.

A. You're wrong. It was 17 as a player and coach.
B. Even if you were right, you proved our point. Championships are not the determining factor for who is an all-time better player.

Originally posted by Furlow:
A. You're wrong. It was 17 as a player and coach.
B. Even if you were right, you proved our point. Championships are not the determining factor for who is an all-time better player.

To deem a player one of the all-time greats you have to have seen him (or her) play. I once saw Joe DiMaggio being interviewed and he was asked if Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all-time. His response was, sure he can hit, but what has he won? Finally, can a player with no rings be considered the GOAT? I think not. The mark of being the best of all-time is making those around you better and that leads to Championships.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by Furlow:

A. You're wrong. It was 17 as a player and coach.
B. Even if you were right, you proved our point. Championships are not the determining factor for who is an all-time better player.

To deem a player one of the all-time greats you have to have seen him (or her) play. I once saw Joe DiMaggio being interviewed and he was asked if Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all-time. His response was, sure he can hit, but what has he won? Finally, can a player with no rings be considered the GOAT? I think not. The mark of being the best of all-time is making those around you better and that leads to Championships.

Yes, I did see Russell play and in no way is he the GOAT or are his 11 rings the benchmark for greatness. Wilt was the more dominant player who didn't have the talent around him like Bill had.

I also disagree that you have to have seen a player play to deem them one of the greats. Are you saying an 18 year old kid cant have looked at stats and YouTube and say MJ is the GOAT? I never saw Ted Williams play but would have to be an idiot not to recognize him as an all time great.

Do you really think that Willie Mays cant be considered as the best player ever because he won only 1 WS or couldnt be in that discussion if the Giants hadn't won in 1954? I think that is incredibly shortsighted

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Yes, I did see Russell play and in no way is he the GOAT or are his 11 rings the benchmark for greatness. Wilt was the more dominant player who didn't have the talent around him like Bill had.

I also disagree that you have to have seen a player play to deem them one of the greats. Are you saying an 18 year old kid cant have looked at stats and YouTube and say MJ is the GOAT? I never saw Ted Williams play but would have to be an idiot not to recognize him as an all time great.

Do you really think that Willie Mays cant be considered as the best player ever because he won only 1 WS or couldnt be in that discussion if the Giants hadn't won in 1954? I think that is incredibly shortsighted

I saw Wilt go up against Russell many times, it was the best matchup ever. Russell knew how to get into Wilts' head. When you talk about the GOAT if Championships are not part of the equation then stats are the primary factor? You have to be lucky to get into the big games and produce under extreme pressure. That's what makes greatness. PS, my first baseball game was at the Polo Grounds in NY and Willie was in centerfield.

wow talk about living in the past and then insulting logic. you're talking about an era that had like 10 or 15 basketball teams, predominantly white, and with the average shooting guard height being 6'2. MJ rolling in his grave...

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Yes, I did see Russell play and in no way is he the GOAT or are his 11 rings the benchmark for greatness. Wilt was the more dominant player who didn't have the talent around him like Bill had.

I also disagree that you have to have seen a player play to deem them one of the greats. Are you saying an 18 year old kid cant have looked at stats and YouTube and say MJ is the GOAT? I never saw Ted Williams play but would have to be an idiot not to recognize him as an all time great.

Do you really think that Willie Mays cant be considered as the best player ever because he won only 1 WS or couldnt be in that discussion if the Giants hadn't won in 1954? I think that is incredibly shortsighted

I saw Wilt go up against Russell many times, it was the best matchup ever. Russell knew how to get into Wilts' head. When you talk about the GOAT if Championships are not part of the equation then stats are the primary factor? You have to be lucky to get into the big games and produce under extreme pressure. That's what makes greatness. PS, my first baseball game was at the Polo Grounds in NY and Willie was in centerfield.

You avoided both of the questions I asked.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Yes, I did see Russell play and in no way is he the GOAT or are his 11 rings the benchmark for greatness. Wilt was the more dominant player who didn't have the talent around him like Bill had.

I also disagree that you have to have seen a player play to deem them one of the greats. Are you saying an 18 year old kid cant have looked at stats and YouTube and say MJ is the GOAT? I never saw Ted Williams play but would have to be an idiot not to recognize him as an all time great.

Do you really think that Willie Mays cant be considered as the best player ever because he won only 1 WS or couldnt be in that discussion if the Giants hadn't won in 1954? I think that is incredibly shortsighted

Nvm

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

For all of you that say Russell was not on the list for GOAT, did any of you actually see him play? And to the person that said he played against YMCA white guys, here's a list of some of the dudes he played against, Elgin Baylor, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, the Big O, Willis Reed, Bob Petit, Dave Bing, Jerry West, Bad Luke Jackson, Chet the Jet Walker, Hal Greer, Walt Bellamy, Gus Honeycomb Johnson, Walt Frazier, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Zelmo Beatty, Paul Silas, Sweet Lou Hudson, Billy C, Lenny Wilkins, there's dozens more.

PS, Stoney, did you ever see Bill Russell play, yeah I thought so.

You don't have to see someone play to know 50ppg in a season is a WAY BETTER than 18ppg. Not only that - Wilt was way more efficient too.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
For all of you that say Russell was not on the list for GOAT, did any of you actually see him play? And to the person that said he played against YMCA white guys, here's a list of some of the dudes he played against, Elgin Baylor, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, the Big O, Willis Reed, Bob Petit, Dave Bing, Jerry West, Bad Luke Jackson, Chet the Jet Walker, Hal Greer, Walt Bellamy, Gus Honeycomb Johnson, Walt Frazier, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Zelmo Beatty, Paul Silas, Sweet Lou Hudson, Billy C, Lenny Wilkins, there's dozens more.

PS, Stoney, did you ever see Bill Russell play, yeah I thought so.

You don't have to see someone play to know 50ppg in a season is a WAY BETTER than 18ppg. Not only that - Wilt was way more efficient too.

Who the heck thinks Russell should be on the list for GOAT?

Originally posted by 49erminion:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
For all of you that say Russell was not on the list for GOAT, did any of you actually see him play? And to the person that said he played against YMCA white guys, here's a list of some of the dudes he played against, Elgin Baylor, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, the Big O, Willis Reed, Bob Petit, Dave Bing, Jerry West, Bad Luke Jackson, Chet the Jet Walker, Hal Greer, Walt Bellamy, Gus Honeycomb Johnson, Walt Frazier, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Zelmo Beatty, Paul Silas, Sweet Lou Hudson, Billy C, Lenny Wilkins, there's dozens more.

PS, Stoney, did you ever see Bill Russell play, yeah I thought so.

You don't have to see someone play to know 50ppg in a season is a WAY BETTER than 18ppg. Not only that - Wilt was way more efficient too.

Who the heck thinks Russell should be on the list for GOAT?

In a sense he is an all time great, he dominated during his era, you can't discredit what he did. You just can't put him at the top of list, which is what Rish is doing...

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49erminion:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
For all of you that say Russell was not on the list for GOAT, did any of you actually see him play? And to the person that said he played against YMCA white guys, here's a list of some of the dudes he played against, Elgin Baylor, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, the Big O, Willis Reed, Bob Petit, Dave Bing, Jerry West, Bad Luke Jackson, Chet the Jet Walker, Hal Greer, Walt Bellamy, Gus Honeycomb Johnson, Walt Frazier, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Zelmo Beatty, Paul Silas, Sweet Lou Hudson, Billy C, Lenny Wilkins, there's dozens more.

PS, Stoney, did you ever see Bill Russell play, yeah I thought so.

You don't have to see someone play to know 50ppg in a season is a WAY BETTER than 18ppg. Not only that - Wilt was way more efficient too.

Who the heck thinks Russell should be on the list for GOAT?

In a sense he is an all time great, he dominated during his era, you can't discredit what he did. You just can't put him at the top of list, which is what Rish is doing...

Oh right there under my nose :). Yes, I agree, BR is on the list as an honorable mention only

Just glad nobody has used the idiotic "HERP Derp Robert Horry is better than Jordan" argument

Originally posted by LayTheWoodall:

Just glad nobody has used the idiotic "HERP Derp Robert Horry is better than Jordan" argument

Big Shot Bob is the GOAT!!