When all is said and done the NBA GOAT is..........

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
He cried and quit on them in a tie game.

I watched the video. LeBron is not crying.

2:28 mark

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
He cried and quit on them in a tie game.

I watched the video. LeBron is not crying.

2:28 mark

yeah all I see is a frustrated guy wiping sweat from his face.

and I'm even Team MJ

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

He cried and quit on them in a tie game.

I watched the video. LeBron is not crying.

2:28 mark

yeah all I see is a frustrated guy wiping sweat from his face.

and I'm even Team MJ

It was reported that he cried but it really isn't the relevant part of his actions. He sat there sulking and he didn't rally his teammates he instead deflated them and gave up on the game.
Tom Tolbert talked about the effect of a star quitting like that, he said the role players look to those guys to lead and rally and when they stop trying and give up on their teammates the rest of the team loses confidence. He went on to give examples of what LeBron should have done to motivate his team for OT.

This also caught my attention:
"So if I remember, yeah, I was sitting on the bench and kind of just contemplating the last couple seconds of what just happened, what expired, from J.R. dribbling the ball out, to G-Hill missing the free throw, actually seeing Draymond [Green] step in early on the lane violation," he said. "Asking myself did I have a lane to actually drive it if I didn't. So there were a lot of things playing through my head."

James continued to go on in detail about why he asked Lue if there were any timeouts remaining once he was on the bench. James pointed to the fact that he began signaling for a timeout as the fourth quarter clock expired; but he also claimed that in the moment, he began second-guessing if they even had a timeout left.

James said he then began to think that maybe it was for the best that the referees didn't see him, citing Chris Webber calling a timeout that the Michigan Wolverines didn't have in the 1993 NCAA national championship game.

"When the game clock went off before J.R. kind of threw the ball to G-Hill to the corner, I actually tried to call timeout," he said. "I don't know if I had enough time because I was kind of a little bit still in shock of what was going on at that point in time. I got to the bench, first thing that came to my mind I was like, OK, I was calling a timeout.

"But hopefully, I'm glad maybe if we didn't have any, I'm glad they didn't give it to me. I didn't want another C-Webb incident. If that happened, then they go to make their free throws and the game is over. So I asked our coaching staff if we had a timeout. And they told me, yes. I guess y'all probably seen the reaction from that point on."

James continued to clarify that finding out that the Cavs did in fact have a timeout left made the fact that the referees didn't see him more "heartbreaking." But regardless of what he was feeling in that moment, his reaction on the bench has drawn criticism for the amount of emotion he showed, combined with the fact that he wasn't outwardly vocal with his teammates in the footage.

But heading into Game 3, criticism about Game 1 is hardly in the forefront of his mind.

"Me? Me being criticized? No. You're saying I got criticized for something, right? I don't believe that. Not me," he quipped sarcastically. "I don't care. I don't care at all. I mean, we're in the NBA Finals. I mean, how much more picking up of teammates do you want me to do? I'm in the NBA Finals, looking for a championship."

Blame the no call on a lane violation
Blame Hill for missing the free throw
Blame JR for his dumb move
Take no blame for "trying to call a TO"
Take no blame for not knowing if he had a TO on a play that followed a stoppage in play in the last 10 seconds of a tied game
Complain about how much picking up of teammates he has had to do thus far while brushing off the suggestion that he should have made an effort to pick up his teammates at the end of regulation in game 1.


He is awesome, an all time great but this will be part of his legacy.

I have absolutely no problem admitting the Warriors caught a break at the end of game 1. What I do have a problem with is hearing LeBron b**** about a lane violation, when this fool literally commits that violation on every single one of his free throw attempts. Sorry man. Bron has no right to complain about lane violations. Period.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

I have absolutely no problem admitting the Warriors caught a break at the end of game 1. What I do have a problem with is hearing LeBron b**** about a lane violation, when this fool literally commits that violation on every single one of his free throw attempts. Sorry man. Bron has no right to complain about lane violations. Period.

https://slate.com/culture/2018/04/does-it-matter-that-lebron-commits-a-lane-violation-every-time-he-shoots-a-free-throw.html

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I have absolutely no problem admitting the Warriors caught a break at the end of game 1. What I do have a problem with is hearing LeBron b**** about a lane violation, when this fool literally commits that violation on every single one of his free throw attempts. Sorry man. Bron has no right to complain about lane violations. Period.

https://slate.com/culture/2018/04/does-it-matter-that-lebron-commits-a-lane-violation-every-time-he-shoots-a-free-throw.html

i thought i was the only one that catches this lol

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I have absolutely no problem admitting the Warriors caught a break at the end of game 1. What I do have a problem with is hearing LeBron b**** about a lane violation, when this fool literally commits that violation on every single one of his free throw attempts. Sorry man. Bron has no right to complain about lane violations. Period.

https://slate.com/culture/2018/04/does-it-matter-that-lebron-commits-a-lane-violation-every-time-he-shoots-a-free-throw.html

i thought i was the only one that catches this lol

i thought that rule was in place to prevent offensive rebounds from the shooter . even if that's not the case, i don't see what he's doing wrong there. he's not crossing the line before he shoots (like Shaq would sometimes do).

it's just a way to follow through on his shot, and he isn't the first to do it (although mostly big men have used this technique). honestly, if he's not going for the rebound or boxing someone else out during a miss, how does this make it illegal? sounds like a silly rule that maybe impacted that game in the 40s, but doesn't anymore. especially since it has the Skip Bayless stamp of approval on it LOOOL

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

In the case of making an All Star team? No. It clearly is the opposite as Mo had roughly the same stats in his AS year as the year before in Milwaukee. The difference? Winning team.

...his efficiency stats took a huge dip when Lebron left Cleveland. Mo Williams shot career best 44 and 43% from 3pt range when he played with Lebron for 2 years in Cleveland. He shot 28% after Lebron left Cleveland.

His career average from 3 without those 2 years would be under 35%.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

In the case of making an All Star team? No. It clearly is the opposite as Mo had roughly the same stats in his AS year as the year before in Milwaukee. The difference? Winning team.

...his efficiency stats took a huge dip when Lebron left Cleveland. Mo Williams shot career best 44 and 43% from 3pt range when he played with Lebron for 2 years in Cleveland. He shot 28% after Lebron left Cleveland.

His career average from 3 without those 2 years would be under 35%.

While attempting significantly more attempts per game too during those seasons. He was more efficient while shooting more.

Originally posted by IT21:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

In the case of making an All Star team? No. It clearly is the opposite as Mo had roughly the same stats in his AS year as the year before in Milwaukee. The difference? Winning team.

...his efficiency stats took a huge dip when Lebron left Cleveland. Mo Williams shot career best 44 and 43% from 3pt range when he played with Lebron for 2 years in Cleveland. He shot 28% after Lebron left Cleveland.

His career average from 3 without those 2 years would be under 35%.

While attempting significantly more attempts per game too during those seasons. He was more efficient while shooting more.

Yup. How many ppl were shooting those %s while shooting 5 3's a game during that era (feels like 2000s was a different era).

Mo Williams never averaged a positive +/- for a season during his career before coming to Cleveland. He was a +11 and +5 with Lebron. Season before he joined Cleveland...he was -7 with Bucks and after Lebron left Celveland he was -10.

But, hey...let's compare his assist stats to see if he got better or not.

C'mon

^4ML.....the entire point of this conversation from my point of view was that LeBron did NOT make Mo an All Star. That is literally what this whole conversation grew from.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
^4ML.....the entire point of this conversation from my point of view was that LeBron did NOT make Mo an All Star. That is literally what this whole conversation grew from.

Fair enough.

I just think all the all-time great players make their team-mates better...just by their presence. I know you didn't say Lebron doesn't...but he absolutely was the reason why Mo Williams had such a positive impact when playing those two years than other years.

I think Mo was a very fine player regardless (I believe this is what you're saying). But, Lebron got the most out of him and that's what better means. For me...Lebron gets credit for that and also Mo gets credit for that. A lot of players who are used to playing a certain way - can't adapt to another way even when it's easier.

LeBron ruined his legacy forever by going back to Cleveland, should've never left Miami if he wanted to win more championships. But hey... at least the media & fans were nice to him again

5 Min mark of this game score was 94-95. Bron went 2-4 in those remaining 5 Min.

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

LeBron ruined his legacy forever by going back to Cleveland, should've never left Miami if he wanted to win more championships. But hey... at least the media & fans were nice to him again

I dunno, I think beating the warriors from down 3-1 and bringing a ship to Cleveland cemented his legacy as a top 5 great. Now he's top 2 and it's not really arguable.

It's not his fault KD made the warriors unbeatable.