When all is said and done the NBA GOAT is..........

Originally posted by 49erminion:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Again, I said "BY HIMSELF". Nobody ever said "LeBron doesn't elevate his teammates". I said he doesn't elevate his teammates by himself. He always has stars around him to help. The entire "Without Pippen Jordan has no titles" is a terrible pro-LeBron point, because without Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, and AD, LeBron has no titles.

That's not the point tho.

Jordan is under .500 in regular season without Pippen. He has won 1 playoff game without Pippen.

As Jordan said - he never won anything without Pippen.

What does this mean? If Pippen was drafted by another team are we saying Jordan would have finished his career with just one playoff win?

lol of course not. Just saying Jordan was one of the greatest scorer of all time but needed an elite 2 way play-maker to be successful in playoffs. Jordan didn't trust his teammates for the longest times - there are articles written about that in the 80s. Jordan needed that kind of playmaker bc he himself wasn't good at running the offense.

Even in Scottie's rookie year - he had a great playoff performance to help win their 1st series.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Those Cleveland teams were laughable though. Bulls still had some good players around MJ, even in Pippens rookie year. And remember, Celtics and Pistons were basically done. Both of those teams were just old

I never said Pippen carried Jordan either lol

Pippen was strictly coming off bench that year and wasn't getting consistent playing time. Doug Collins realized just in time playoffs that he needed to start Pippen and Pippen had a great game to help close out the series. Pippen almost always played well when given 30+ minutes.

Larry Hughes was putting up those numbers playing 36 mpg
Pippen was playing 20mpg

Pippen per 36 numbers for his rookie year:
14ppg
6.5rpg
3.7apg
2 spg
1.1 bpg

Edit wrong year

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 4ML:

That's not the point tho.

Jordan is under .500 in regular season without Pippen. He has won 1 playoff game without Pippen.

As Jordan said - he never won anything without Pippen.

Yeah, its nice when superstars give their teammates credit.

Of course. Especially when you really didn't win anything without that teammate.

I thought you enjoy greatness and don't diminish MJ's legacy

Originally posted by 4ML:
lol of course not. Just saying Jordan was one of the greatest scorer of all time but needed an elite 2 way play-maker to be successful in playoffs.

Even in Scottie's rookie year - he had a great playoff performance to win their 1st series. Without that - they go into game 7 against a bad Cleveland team.

That "bad Cleveland team" had a better record than an overwhelming majority of Lebrons first round opponents. That "bad Cleveland team" had multiple All Stars on it (or one All Star if you dont want to use Warrior hater logic). Keep that same energy when discussing Lebrons career.

And also, that game 7 that the Bulls would have had to play if Pippen didnt have a great performance, didnt exist.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
That "bad Cleveland team" had a better record than an overwhelming majority of Lebrons first round opponents. That "bad Cleveland team" had multiple All Stars on it (or one All Star if you dont want to use Warrior hater logic). Keep that same energy when discussing Lebrons career.

And also, that game 7 that the Bulls would have had to play if Pippen didnt have a great performance, didnt exist.

I don't know what this warriors hater logic is.

Never said Lebron's first round opponents were good. If you win enough reg. season games - you shouldn't have a good 1st round opponent.

Originally posted by Knowledge:

Originally posted by Zachary:

Originally posted by Knowledge:

Lebron will never be the GOAT unless he gets at least 6 rings

So if he decided to be a bench player for a championship team right now and they won 2 more rings for him, now he's the goat?

This will never happen so its pointless to even answer

It's literally your argument though. That's why the rings doesn't make sense right now

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 4ML:
That's not the point tho.

Jordan is under .500 in regular season without Pippen. He has won 1 playoff game without Pippen.

As Jordan said - he never won anything without Pippen.

+ Show all quotes
Yeah, its nice when superstars give their teammates credit.

Of course. Especially when you really didn't win anything without that teammate.

I thought you enjoy greatness and don't diminish MJ's legacy

I also said - sometimes negativity needs to be responded with negativity. And, it is no diminishing Jordan by talking about Pippen.

Also, Pippen was an all time great too. He would be the starting F on a all-decades 90s team.

PG: Stockton
G: JORDAN (best player of the decade by far)
SF: Scottie
PF: Malone
C: Hakeem

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
That "bad Cleveland team" had a better record than an overwhelming majority of Lebrons first round opponents. That "bad Cleveland team" had multiple All Stars on it (or one All Star if you dont want to use Warrior hater logic). Keep that same energy when discussing Lebrons career.

And also, that game 7 that the Bulls would have had to play if Pippen didnt have a great performance, didnt exist.

I don't know what this warriors hater logic is.

Never said Lebron's first round opponents were good. If you win enough reg. season games - you shouldn't have a good 1st round opponent.

Yet you felt the need to highlight that Jordan's first round opponent that year was a "bad cleveland team"....which was better than a large majority of your hero's first round opponents. Got it.

Embarrassing

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Again, I said "BY HIMSELF". Nobody ever said "LeBron doesn't elevate his teammates". I said he doesn't elevate his teammates by himself. He always has stars around him to help. The entire "Without Pippen Jordan has no titles" is a terrible pro-LeBron point, because without Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, and AD, LeBron has no titles.

That's not the point tho.

Jordan is under .500 in regular season without Pippen. He has won 1 playoff game without Pippen.

As Jordan said - he never won anything without Pippen.

Jordan only played his first 3 years and his last 2 years of his career without Pippen, and those rosters were crappy. He was very young and very old in those circumstances. It had far more to do with those factors than whether or not Pippen was there. LeBron fanboys reach so hard to try and bring Jordan down.

Ultimately, 6-0 > 4-6 no matter which way you slice it.

Until LeBron's mere silhouette becomes an iconic, ubiquitous part of the worldwide zeitgeist, hes just the best player of his generation, not in history.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by 49erminion:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Again, I said "BY HIMSELF". Nobody ever said "LeBron doesn't elevate his teammates". I said he doesn't elevate his teammates by himself. He always has stars around him to help. The entire "Without Pippen Jordan has no titles" is a terrible pro-LeBron point, because without Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, and AD, LeBron has no titles.

+ Show all quotes
That's not the point tho.

Jordan is under .500 in regular season without Pippen. He has won 1 playoff game without Pippen.

As Jordan said - he never won anything without Pippen.

What does this mean? If Pippen was drafted by another team are we saying Jordan would have finished his career with just one playoff win?

lol of course not. Just saying Jordan was one of the greatest scorer of all time but needed an elite 2 way play-maker to be successful in playoffs. Jordan didn't trust his teammates for the longest times - there are articles written about that in the 80s. Jordan needed that kind of playmaker bc he himself wasn't good at running the offense.

Even in Scottie's rookie year - he had a great playoff performance to help win their 1st series.

in any team sport in the history of team sports has there ever been a player who has led her team to win it all with s**tty teammates?

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Again, I said "BY HIMSELF". Nobody ever said "LeBron doesn't elevate his teammates". I said he doesn't elevate his teammates by himself. He always has stars around him to help. The entire "Without Pippen Jordan has no titles" is a terrible pro-LeBron point, because without Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, and AD, LeBron has no titles.

That's not the point tho.

Jordan is under .500 in regular season without Pippen. He has won 1 playoff game without Pippen.

As Jordan said - he never won anything without Pippen.

Jordan only played his first 3 years and his last 2 years of his career without Pippen, and those rosters were crappy. He was very young and very old in those circumstances. It had far more to do with those factors than whether or not Pippen was there. LeBron fanboys reach so hard to try and bring Jordan down.

That's really the point. Context. You applied context to why Jordan never won without Pippen. There is context why Jordan is 6-0 in finals - because they never played an elite healthy team in the finals and why Lebron is 4-6 because he has almost always played an elite team in the finals (minus the Heat in 2020).

Originally posted by 49erminion:
in any team sport in the history of team sports has there ever been a player who has led her team to win it all with s**tty teammates?

I don't think so...but, Iverson and Lebron (twice) took really s**tty teams to the NBA Finals. Those runs were pretty impressive.