When all is said and done the NBA GOAT is..........

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

As a Jazz fan who actually watched the team throughout the 90's, I can tell you that Stockton might not have been in his prime in the Finals years, but he was playing extremely well. Go look at his 1996-97 western conference finals against Houston.

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Obviously I respect your opinion on Jazz. I watched the Jazz a decent amount. They were the team I was rooting for in the West and Pacers in the East. Stockton and Reggie Miller were two of my favorite players.

But, HOFers don't fall off the cliff - especially the ones with high IQ like Stockton. They decline slowly. He was still really good but not his absolutely peak good. Just my opinion.

The Jazz as a team were peaking, which is what matters. Stockton was playing at a high level. Seems weird to try and downplay Jordan's success by saying specific players weren't at their absolute peak individually. Barkley was the MVP the year Jordan beat the Suns. He just made everyone else look inferior.

I remember 90's basketball well. I remember Jordan's career well, and ive seen LeBron's career from the start. They arent the same. Jordan was a different dude. Its not knocking LeBron to say that, there was just a noticeable difference that cant be ignored.

Barkley never had the same talent around him that Jordan did. No teams during the 90s did. Let alone the goat coach. Bulls were the only team in the 90s with what we now call a big 3. Especially during the 2nd three peat. No team came close to that talent.

98 Lakers had 4 all stars

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Barkley never had the same talent around him that Jordan did. No teams during the 90s did. Let alone the goat coach. Bulls were the only team in the 90s with what we now call a big 3. Especially during the 2nd three peat. No team came close to that talent.

I think you guys are underselling some of those teams that the Bulls faced. Phoenix was a 53 win team that made the 2nd round without Sir Charles. They had 2 other all stars in Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle and another good player in Cedric Ceballos. Seattle had Payton, Kemp and Detlef Shrempf and the Jazz were a really tough team.

Today's league is tougher in terms of overall talent as well as players taking the easy route. Anytime Kevin Durant can be added to a Finals team that's obviously a hurdle Jordan never saw. It would be like Reggie Miller going to Orlando with Penny and Shaq to stick it to MJ.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

As a Jazz fan who actually watched the team throughout the 90's, I can tell you that Stockton might not have been in his prime in the Finals years, but he was playing extremely well. Go look at his 1996-97 western conference finals against Houston.

Obviously I respect your opinion on Jazz. I watched the Jazz a decent amount. They were the team I was rooting for in the West and Pacers in the East. Stockton and Reggie Miller were two of my favorite players.

But, HOFers don't fall off the cliff - especially the ones with high IQ like Stockton. They decline slowly. He was still really good but not his absolutely peak good. Just my opinion.

+ Show all quotes
The Jazz as a team were peaking, which is what matters. Stockton was playing at a high level. Seems weird to try and downplay Jordan's success by saying specific players weren't at their absolute peak individually. Barkley was the MVP the year Jordan beat the Suns. He just made everyone else look inferior.

I remember 90's basketball well. I remember Jordan's career well, and ive seen LeBron's career from the start. They arent the same. Jordan was a different dude. Its not knocking LeBron to say that, there was just a noticeable difference that cant be ignored.

Barkley never had the same talent around him that Jordan did. No teams during the 90s did. Let alone the goat coach. Bulls were the only team in the 90s with what we now call a big 3. Especially during the 2nd three peat. No team came close to that talent.

98 Lakers had 4 all stars

I meant for MJs run, he never got to face a team like Kobe and Shaq Lakers.

And sadly we missed out on Kobe Shaq Lakers vs Bulls. Dumbass Bulls FO

Who would Phil be coaching though? That team probably gets the edge.

MJ is the GOAT. It's weird it's even a debate.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
MJ is the GOAT. It's weird it's even a debate.

I love lebron and been following him since he came out of highschool and I think MJ is still the goat, but lebron does have a Chip that seems to be more meaningful than MJ. Also I feel like LBJ needs to atleast win one more ring to make this whole debate more fluid.

MJ is goat. Bron is close 2nd. There is no 3rd.

Originally posted by Zachary:

Originally posted by Knowledge:

Originally posted by Zachary:

Originally posted by Knowledge:
Lebron will never be the GOAT unless he gets at least 6 rings

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So if he decided to be a bench player for a championship team right now and they won 2 more rings for him, now he's the goat?

This will never happen so its pointless to even answer

It's literally your argument though. That's why the rings doesn't make sense right now

No its not. If Lebron wins two more rings he's clearly going to do it as the man. He's never going to be in the NBA coming off the bench.

One of the best all time regular seasons.

Great 49ers gift ideas ⇨
Acknowledging greatness. Don't hate.

Originally posted by 4ML:

One of the best all time regular seasons.

Russ Westbrook's MVP season was ridiculous.

🔳No. 1 PTS
🔳No. 1 "clutch" PTS
🔳No. 1 PER
🔳No. 2 AST
🔳Played 81 games
🔳18 40-point games
🔳50+ PTS four times
🔳42 triple-doubles (record)
🔳1st trip-dub average since Oscar
🔳Made the playoffs without KD

Nobody wanted it more. pic.twitter.com/umafbLP6hX

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) November 2, 2020

Acknowledging greatness. Don't hate.

NO DOUBT!!!!

Originally posted by titan:

Originally posted by 4ML:

One of the best all time regular seasons.

Russ Westbrook's MVP season was ridiculous.

🔳No. 1 PTS
🔳No. 1 "clutch" PTS
🔳No. 1 PER
🔳No. 2 AST
🔳Played 81 games
🔳18 40-point games
🔳50+ PTS four times
🔳42 triple-doubles (record)
🔳1st trip-dub average since Oscar
🔳Made the playoffs without KD

Nobody wanted it more. pic.twitter.com/umafbLP6hX

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) November 2, 2020

Acknowledging greatness. Don't hate.

NO DOUBT!!!!

Yea my fav player to watch

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Barkley never had the same talent around him that Jordan did. No teams during the 90s did. Let alone the goat coach. Bulls were the only team in the 90s with what we now call a big 3. Especially during the 2nd three peat. No team came close to that talent.

I think you guys are underselling some of those teams that the Bulls faced. Phoenix was a 53 win team that made the 2nd round without Sir Charles. They had 2 other all stars in Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle and another good player in Cedric Ceballos. Seattle had Payton, Kemp and Detlef Shrempf and the Jazz were a really tough team.

Today's league is tougher in terms of overall talent as well as players taking the easy route. Anytime Kevin Durant can be added to a Finals team that's obviously a hurdle Jordan never saw. It would be like Reggie Miller going to Orlando with Penny and Shaq to stick it to MJ.

Its just recency bias. Jordan would've smoked the players of this era too. The most mentally tough and focused player ever going against these pace and space whiners with their load management. In 95-96 the Bulls won 72 games because Jordan refused to take a night off from going all out. Imagine Jordan in his prime with no hand checking.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Barkley never had the same talent around him that Jordan did. No teams during the 90s did. Let alone the goat coach. Bulls were the only team in the 90s with what we now call a big 3. Especially during the 2nd three peat. No team came close to that talent.

I think you guys are underselling some of those teams that the Bulls faced. Phoenix was a 53 win team that made the 2nd round without Sir Charles. They had 2 other all stars in Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle and another good player in Cedric Ceballos. Seattle had Payton, Kemp and Detlef Shrempf and the Jazz were a really tough team.

Today's league is tougher in terms of overall talent as well as players taking the easy route. Anytime Kevin Durant can be added to a Finals team that's obviously a hurdle Jordan never saw. It would be like Reggie Miller going to Orlando with Penny and Shaq to stick it to MJ.

Its just recency bias. Jordan would've smoked the players of this era too. The most mentally tough and focused player ever going against these pace and space whiners with their load management. In 95-96 the Bulls won 72 games because Jordan refused to take a night off from going all out. Imagine Jordan in his prime with no hand checking.

Imagine Jordan in his prime against zone defense, even he said it would've been an issue, look up his quote. And then imagine Jordan actually being defended by guys that are at least almost as athletic as him. Not 6,3 Joe Dumars who MJ called the best defender he faced. Please let me know who were the 6'6+ ft guys who where great athletes and defenders. The whole league now is filled with those type of players.

With that said, MJ would still dominate today and probably still be the best player in the league, but he would have way more competition. Hes not gonna have two 3 peats. His Bulls wouldn't be the only super team anymore like he had during that era, bc no team had anything close to 3 HOF players in their prime, great bench and the GOAT coach. Bulls roster was amazing, especially during their 2nd run. And as we saw, even when MJ took a year off, Bulls were still one of the best 4 teams in the league. Thats how you know that team was loaded with talent. Compare that to this Lakers team, take Bron off, and its a 40 win team and maybe a 8th seed.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Imagine Jordan in his prime against zone defense, even he said it would've been an issue, look up his quote. And then imagine Jordan actually being defended by guys that are at least almost as athletic as him. Not 6,3 Joe Dumars who MJ called the best defender he faced. Please let me know who were the 6'6+ ft guys who where great athletes and defenders. The whole league now is filled with those type of players.

With that said, MJ would still dominate today and probably still be the best player in the league, but he would have way more competition. Hes not gonna have two 3 peats. His Bulls wouldn't be the only super team anymore like he had during that era, bc no team had anything close to 3 HOF players in their prime, great bench and the GOAT coach. Bulls roster was amazing, especially during their 2nd run. And as we saw, even when MJ took a year off, Bulls were still one of the best 4 teams in the league. Thats how you know that team was loaded with talent. Compare that to this Lakers team, take Bron off, and its a 40 win team and maybe a 8th seed.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
MJ is the GOAT. It's weird it's even a debate.

Its really not a debate though.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Imagine Jordan in his prime against zone defense, even he said it would've been an issue, look up his quote. And then imagine Jordan actually being defended by guys that are at least almost as athletic as him. Not 6,3 Joe Dumars who MJ called the best defender he faced. Please let me know who were the 6'6+ ft guys who where great athletes and defenders. The whole league now is filled with those type of players.

With that said, MJ would still dominate today and probably still be the best player in the league, but he would have way more competition. Hes not gonna have two 3 peats. His Bulls wouldn't be the only super team anymore like he had during that era, bc no team had anything close to 3 HOF players in their prime, great bench and the GOAT coach. Bulls roster was amazing, especially during their 2nd run. And as we saw, even when MJ took a year off, Bulls were still one of the best 4 teams in the league. Thats how you know that team was loaded with talent. Compare that to this Lakers team, take Bron off, and its a 40 win team and maybe a 8th seed.

If Jordan played today and didnt form a super team, then yes. If he did form a super team like all the millennials and zoomers like to do now, he'd absolutely been able to 3 peat.